T. candidi brood, artificial raising question

[krib]

Hi,

My T. candidi pair had 6 spaws, all of which were gone in 3 days at most, so I decided to try artificial raising this time. I put the coco cave in a floating breeder box in the parents' tank. After 8 days or so the fry detached from the coco shell and started moving around. (At least I know the problem was not water parameters nor the father being infertile)

This is my first time artificially raising any cichlid fry so I am a bit worried. The fry are too skittish and jump from one place to another, and do not seem interested in the food. I gave them some freshwater rotifer (B. calycflorus) which I have been culturing using green water, as well as some BBS (Great Salt Lake strain, maybe too large?) and saw no feeding response. The egg yolks seem to be gone and I fear the fry may starve. I expected they would not exhibit their normal herd-feeding behaviour without the mother , but I also expected them to at least pick at the rotifers at their noses. I added some moss to the box. The box has grills lined with filter floss to allow for water exchange.

So, any suggestions on artificial raising? Or T. candidi specific advice? Al input is welcome.

If you would like to see the parents, here is the link about them;
http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/t...didi-pair-agression-problem.18406/#post-88134

Thank you

 

[Mike Wise]

I've never artificially raised any dwarf. T. candidi fry, like those of apistos, take instructions from their mother. No mother, no sense of security and they stay huddled on the bottom. My suggestion is to hope for the best with this batch. The next batch, let the parents spawn and remove the male (and any other fish) from the tank and let the female take care of the fry in an empty breeding tank.

 

[krib]

Mike I really hate separating the eggs/fry from their mother and this is the first time I did it in my 24 years of hobby, but I already tried separating the male 5 times before and they all failed. (there are no other fish in the tank) T. candidi is extremely rare here and I was a bit desperate. Later during the day I saw the fry pick on the rotifers but if you ask me they are too tiny to eat BBS. Probably their mother would make them wait in the cave for an extra day.

Thanks for the input, and any advice on emergency artificial raising is welcome!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Using green water.........Later during the day I saw the fry pick on the rotifers but if you ask me they are too tiny to eat BBS.

Add some of the "Green Water" to the fry tank.

You could try squeezing a filter sponge out, you will get a range of sizes of Rotifers, as well as other micro-organisms.

I'd try adding some leaf litter and moss tangles as well.

Do you have a "Banana Worm" or "Vinegar Eel" culture? they are both a bit smaller than BBS and very low maintenance to keep going.

cheers Darrel

 

[krib]

Thanks for the reply Darrel. I will definitely try the filter sponge and leaf litter, there are plenty of half decayed Magnolia grandiflora leaves around. Green water sounds like a great idea, but I am a little worried that possible fertiliser residues in the water may harm the fry.

I actually have 3 different micro worm cultures but as usual all stopped producing at the exact moment I need them. Tried renewing cultures but they haven't started producing yet. Just the surface shimmer but no worms climbing the sides to collect. I have never seen Banana Worm nor Vinegar Eel cultures around here, but as far as I know they are similar to micro worms.

So far the rotifers seem to be keeping them alive. It is really hard to tell if they are feeding or not because they are so tiny!

 

[gerald]

If you have any outdoor water containers that tree leaves have fallen into and gotten a bit slimy, use some of those leaves - they should have rotifers and protozoans feeding on the fungal/bacterial slime. Don't rinse them - just pick off any dragonfly or damselfly nymphs.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I will definitely try the filter sponge and leaf litter, there are plenty of half decayed Magnolia grandiflora leaves around. Green water sounds like a great idea, but I am a little worried that possible fertiliser residues in the water may harm the fry.

I actually have 3 different micro worm cultures but as usual all stopped producing at the exact moment I need them. Tried renewing cultures but they haven't started producing yet. Just the surface shimmer but no worms climbing the sides to collect.

I have never seen Banana Worm nor Vinegar Eel cultures around here, but as far as I know they are similar to micro worms.

Gerald's suggestion is a good one. Magnolia grandiflora leaves are fine to use.

You can concentrate the "green water" algae by swirling the culture around to form a central vortex, and then pipetting directly from the centre of the vortex where the cells are thickest. This way you should be able to get a lot of algal cells and only a small volume of nutrient solution.

"Surface shimmer" is a good sign. I don't know what you feed your micro-worms on, but I use "rolled oats" and the cultures last at least a month before sub-culturing. If you want to speed up production a small amount of live yeast added to the cultures will make them grow much more quickly (the nematodes feed on yeast, the oat substrate just feeds the yeast).

Banana worms (Panagrellus nepenthicola) are a nematode very similar to micro-worms, but they are smaller and more prolific. They also seem to live a lot longer in the tank water, but they don't swim as such.

Vinegar eels (Turbatrix aceti) are another very small nematode, but they are "no maintenance" for months at a time. They swim for a long time in the tank water, so are really most suitable for small fry that feed away from the bottom.

cheers Darrel