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Sick female apistogramma cacatouide please help

AberdeenRicki1985

New Member
Messages
10
Hey guys looking for some advice.

Yesterday my female cacatuoides was a little less active yesterday.
I have observed her and removed to a fry net today with her hide and some java moss for a bit of privacy as the neons were starting to get rough.

She is still swimming but incredibly slow and keeps resting on her side at the bottom. She isnt gasping and has no visible injuries or signs of infection to me but I'm new to this species.

Water stats , ph7. 0 amonia and nitrite, 5ppm nitrate, water soft and a temp of 25degress C. I have attached a few photos and a video as reference. I dont have a second tank to isolate her so I am concerned if I should humanely put her to sleep or give her a fighting chance in the mean time and hope.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks Ricki
 

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dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
I think she has Dropsy and unfortunately I can't hold out much hope for her. She looks more like A. trifasciata, although I'm particularly poor at ID ing fish.

cheers Darrel
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
I agree with dw1305.

It has dropsy and both-sided popeye, which are symptoms of a nonspecific bacterial infection. Except a lot of high volume waterchanges little can be done. Freely available antibiotics are usually massively underdosed and useless. Prescription antibiotics will be too expensive and too late. Also, both can impact the beneficial bacteria and simultaneously breed multiresistant pathogens.

Thus, I would definitely consider putting it to sleep.

And then maybe do a troubleshoot. Usually a combination of overfeeding (or wrong food), too little waterflow, too high temperatures, overstocking and insufficient waterchanges cause these symptoms. (Doesn't mean all of these, sometimes it's just one or two.) As for the food-part: If you feed a lot of bloodworms, tone it down a notch, that stuff tends to be more contaminated than other frozen or live foods.

Also neither desinfecting the tank nor treating the other fish is necessary. The bacteria that cause this are always present, it's often just the immune system giving up, while the whole tank system is destablised.
 

AberdeenRicki1985

New Member
Messages
10
I agree with dw1305.

It has dropsy and both-sided popeye, which are symptoms of a nonspecific bacterial infection. Except a lot of high volume waterchanges little can be done. Freely available antibiotics are usually massively underdosed and useless. Prescription antibiotics will be too expensive and too late. Also, both can impact the beneficial bacteria and simultaneously breed multiresistant pathogens.

Thus, I would definitely consider putting it to sleep.

And then maybe do a troubleshoot. Usually a combination of overfeeding (or wrong food), too little waterflow, too high temperatures, overstocking and insufficient waterchanges cause these symptoms. (Doesn't mean all of these, sometimes it's just one or two.) As for the food-part: If you feed a lot of bloodworms, tone it down a notch, that stuff tends to be more contaminated than other frozen or live foods.

Also neither desinfecting the tank nor treating the other fish is necessary. The bacteria that cause this are always present, it's often just the immune system giving up, while the whole tank system is destablised.

MacZ

Thanks for the reply. She went downhill fast and was gone within an hour of posting this last night.

The only thing I can think of as my water quality appears fine and I do frequent water changes , 25% per week is that I changed the aquascaping on Friday past. I bought some java moss and made a carpet for the pair of them and possibly over stressed her when moving the other decor and plants. I should have moved it gradually over a the course of a week I think.

The rest of the tank mates are looking lovely and acting as normal so I'm hoping that's the end of it.

Sickening as they were quite a pair together, she was the most dominant fish in the community and still rather young.

I will give it a few weeksmonitoring to make sure none of the rest of the community are about to get sick.

Dont suppose you could give me a few pointers in regards to finding her replacment in the future? What should I be looking for in an apistogramma caca when in the pet store? Thanks in advance
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Oh, so sorry to hear she passed. On the other hand... glad she doesn't suffer further.

I'd love to help with a troubleshooting to prevent such things in the future, if you like.
I can tell right now, that 25% a week might be too little.

A complete stocking list and a picture of the tank would be helpful. Also maybe check your water hardness.

In the store look for liveliness, and good condition. If they sit emaciated in the corner: Pass. Any dead tankmates: Pass. Any sick tankmates: Pass. You get the idea. Only buy when you can be 90% sure the fish are not sick.
 

AberdeenRicki1985

New Member
Messages
10
Oh, so sorry to hear she passed. On the other hand... glad she doesn't suffer further.

I'd love to help with a troubleshooting to prevent such things in the future, if you like.
I can tell right now, that 25% a week might be too little.

A complete stocking list and a picture of the tank would be helpful. Also maybe check your water hardness.

In the store look for liveliness, and good condition. If they sit emaciated in the corner: Pass. Any dead tankmates: Pass. Any sick tankmates: Pass. You get the idea. Only buy when you can be 90% sure the fish are not sick.


Complete stocking list is as follows.

1x apisto cacatuoide/Male
5 x neon tetra
1 x silver tetra
3 x guppys 1 Male
2 x bristle nose plecos
1 x rasboa

The rasboa and silver tetra are the last of 2 groups I have had for 5 years but I am not looking to get any more. I have tried offering them to anybody who has a school but no one seems to want them.

I will attach a video of the tank along with a photo
 

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AberdeenRicki1985

New Member
Messages
10
Water is kept soft. Tank is a juwel trigon 190 with the bioflow filter, with air diffuser and also a stand alone air pump, also a mean green UV filter, cant really see from the photo but there is a large piece of boxwood to give the water a more natural feel/colour
 

AberdeenRicki1985

New Member
Messages
10
... and always quarantine any fish for at least 2 weeks before adding it to an established tank.

I wish I could Mike. I only have one tank. I'm hoping I can find a small second hand one to keep running as a fry tank should and of the fish decide to mate. The guppies have a swollen gravid spot at the min so we will see.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
The water could be much softer without the sand and limestone rocks (basically all white stone) and without the snail shells. Was that tank a tanganyikan tank before? This material must be hardening the water quite a lot.

I think there are some missidentifications.

I count:
2 or 3 Neon Tetras
2 or 3 Green Neons or Cardinal Tetras
Those are definitely two different species, but can't exactly say which.

1 Black Phantom Tetra
and on the foto three Guppies and one unidentifiyable fish close to the surface.

But neither a Rasbora nor a Silver Tetra.
I guess the Pleco is hidden?

The amount of plants is ok. :) Like them, most are in good shape.
How long is the tank running?
 

AberdeenRicki1985

New Member
Messages
10
The water could be much softer without the sand and limestone rocks (basically all white stone) and without the snail shells. Was that tank a tanganyikan tank before? This material must be hardening the water quite a lot.

I think there are some missidentifications.

I count:
2 or 3 Neon Tetras
2 or 3 Green Neons or Cardinal Tetras
Those are definitely two different species, but can't exactly say which.

1 Black Phantom Tetra
and on the foto three Guppies and one unidentifiyable fish close to the surface.

But neither a Rasbora nor a Silver Tetra.
I guess the Pleco is hidden?

The amount of plants is ok. :) Like them, most are in good shape.
How long is the tank running?

Yeah the plecos are almost nocturnal and you could quite possibly be correct in regards to the neons they were house in an orb before and have never really grown they are a more dull shade of blue.

The tank has been running 3 months with fish and a month prior for cycling. The moss is a new addition and seems to be taking hold and the fish love sifting it.

Do you think this is stocked ok or is it overloaded? It's a 190 litre but I suppose I may have lost 20 litres with the wood and stones?

That's the stock I'm going with in the future I will only add 1 female caca and some shrimp after I have researched what can live harmoniously with what I have.

Thanks for the replies
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Yeah the plecos are almost nocturnal and you could quite possibly be correct in regards to the neons they were house in an orb before and have never really grown they are a more dull shade of blue.

The tank has been running 3 months with fish and a month prior for cycling. The moss is a new addition and seems to be taking hold and the fish love sifting it.

Do you think this is stocked ok or is it overloaded? It's a 190 litre but I suppose I may have lost 20 litres with the wood and stones?

That's the stock I'm going with in the future I will only add 1 female caca and some shrimp after I have researched what can live harmoniously with what I have.

Thanks for the replies

The stock is ok, you could even stock up on the tetras (and in my opinion you should).

Only things that maybe should be adressed: Hardness and guppies. Definitely replace the rocks with such that don't raise hardness and pH and remove the shells aswell.
And the guppies are somewhat misplaced. They need harder water, while the rest of the fish likes the water soft. A compromise is hard to do, so I'd consider moving the guppies to another tank.
 

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