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R/o Unit or peat?

BristolCichlids

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
10
Location
Levittown, PA
I am rearranging my fish room and will be breeding Apisto's. I will
have 20 tanks just for apisto's and I need to soften my water and
bring the ph down. I have never used a R/O unit nor know too much
about it or softening the water. Could anyone tell me exactly how it works?
What is the difference between 3 chamber, 4 chamber, 5 chambers? Would it be just as good to soften with peat instead of purchasing a R/O unit?
If I use peat how do you know how much to add to your tank so it doesn't drop the hardness like from 7.6 to 6.0 or 5.0 all at once? Is it better to have a drum say with 50 gallons of water, add peat to it then add it to the tanks during water changes or just add the peat to the filter of the tank you need soft?
Do R/O units waste water?
Any comments on which brands work for you and which ones don't?
My ph out of the tap is around 7.6 with a med. hardness.
I was breeding apisto nijsseni but could only get 3 or 4 eggs to
hatch and was told that they needed a lower ph to have more hatch but before I could do that I lost them to bad heater! Now my LFS is getting in
lots of Apisto's and I have been reading so much about them I am
hooked on breeding them again but I have hard water.
 

Dirk

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
16
Hi BC,

okay I try to answer your question and hope I understand you right from here in Germany.

R/O is I believe what we called in Germany the unit for "osmose-water". I use this also, because we have as you very hard water with PH 7,5.

First of all I bought 4 gallons with each of them for 40 litre. 2 of the empty gallons I put in the bath-tub, fix the osmose-unit in the first one and let the soft water in it. 6 hours and the first gallon is full, the other follows ...

When the 4 gallons are full, I normally change the water in my tanks once a week with app. 40%. I have very good result with this osmose-unit, i also breed many Apisto.

The technical things are too difficult for me to explain (I have to practise more english). One thing you need is a control to measure the µS/cm. That is very important, so you can see how good is the water. It´s important and expensive.

Hope I could help you. :D

Ciao
dirk
 

Neil

New Member
Messages
1,583
Location
Sacramento, Ca.
BristolCichlids,
I my mind, if you are going to have more than a few tanks for "soft-water" species, you need an RO unit. It is not as important which unit you get (3, 4 or 5 chambered), just as long as it has a RO membrane and a micron filter. Carbon and DI chambers are a function of specific need. ROs will waste somewhere in the area of 6-10 gallons of water for each 1 that you produce, but can be recycled for use in hard-water aquariums, drip irrigation for your garden, etc.
My method is to capture the RO water in a clean trash barrel, dripping it over peat to add tannins and stabilize the pH a little. The hardness will be close to 0. If your pH is 7.6, with med. hardness, you can use 100% RO for your water changes for a while to slowly adjust the hardness down to appropriate levels. This should also bring your pH down into the 6.5 range, if peat filtering is applied. Do a 33 - 50% water change with the RO and it will cut your hardness down by 1/3 to 1/2 of what it is now. The next water change will be a smaller decrease in hardness from the initial tap, because your water will already be softer after the first change.
I think that the hardness and/or purity of the water are the critical issues here. You should not have unbelievable fluctuations in your pH, because the RO is added slowly. This can be a secondary issue for you to explore and manipulate, but the peat will be going a long way to doing that for you. Good luck, Neil

Dirk,
I think your English is doing great! I understood everything that you
were saying!
 
M

Max

Guest
R/O FAQ

Hi all,

Hallo Dirk,
Wie gehts? Wo wohnst Du in Deutschland? Dein Englisch ist sehr gut 8) .

I hope this FAQ on the Reverse Osmosis process will answer some of your questions.By David Gromberg:
What is osmosis?
Osmosis refers to the passage of water thru a thin membrane from the side with low salt concentration to the side with higher salt concentration. This can happen even when the water level is higher on the high salt side and the water must move against a pressure difference. The bottom line is that osmosis refers to a concentration difference manifesting itself as a pressure difference.
What is reverse osmosis (RO)?
The other side of the coin is reverse osmosis. A difference in pressure is used to cause a difference in salt concentration. It is as though the pressure is being used to force the water molecules through the membrane while retaining the larger salt molecules (sort of like a screen). Salt means any inorganic compound dissolved in water. When water is processed by reverse osmosis a large fraction of dissolved material is removed. The cleaner the input water the cleaner the output water will be. Conversely, if your input water is clean enough, you may not need an RO unit.
How does RO equipment work?
After preliminary filtering for suspended particles and carbon filtering for organic substances that are readily adsorbed on carbon particles, RO equipment uses the pressure of the water line (usually 50-100psi) to force water through its membrane, producing as product relatively pure water and producing as waste product water with a higher concentration of salt than the raw input water has. Some systems let you adjust how pure the product is (less pure product produces less waste water product).
What about membranes?
There are two basic types of membranes: TFC and CTA. CTA membranes must have chlorinated water (such as from a water company system). If they are fed well water, microbes will build up and clog the membrane. TFC membranes are used with well water as they resist the clogging. But they cost more to use.
How much does RO equipment cost?
Simple systems start at about $80 for CTA systems or about $150 for TFC systems. Small systems produce about 10 gallons of water a day. Larger systems can produce fifty or even 100 gallons per day, at about 2-3 times the cost of a simple system.
What can you use RO water for?
RO water has a lot less calcium and magnesium in it than the input water. This makes it much better suited for applications requiring soft water. For the rest of this FAQ I will focus on aquarium applications. Depending on your water change scheme, the best use of an RO unit is usually on the water-saver flow (high output, not quite as clean) and using the water for water changes. In this case, since the RO water is being mixed into the remaining aquarium water that is NOT being changed out, it is not necessary to add any chemicals to the RO water. If you need to use straight RO water in some application, it may be desirable to mix in a little unprocessed tap water. If the pH of your RO water is too high, sphagnum peat can lower it. To raise the pH, a very weak solution of a strong base like lye would be a good choice. Use caution with concentrated solutions of strong bases and acids.
What are the pros of RO usage?
RO water is cheap (if a unit lasts four years and requires 8 membranes during that time, and costs $180 to buy and $500 for supplies and produces 50 gallons per day, that is only about a penny a gallon).
RO water is simple to understand. It is just tap water most of whose salts have been removed.

RO water is simple to manage. By testing for hardness and pH you can become aware of membrane and filter exhaustion easily.

What are the cons of RO usage?
RO water is expensive to start. Even a minimal system will cost $100 with test kits.
RO produces waste water you must dispose of. But remember, the waste water is very like your tap water. So it can be used in applications where your tap water works well. Examples might include clothes washing, plant or lawn watering, toilet flushing.

What are the alternatives to RO?
Distillation
produces clean water by evaporating the water from the input and condensing the steam. It is highly energy-intensive, and expensive unless you have a free source of waste heat. Distillation systems tend to be low capacity.
Ion-exchange
systems work by exchanging cations such as calcium and magnesium for the cation on the resin, usually sodium, potassium or hydrogen. They also exchange anions like carbonate and sulfate for the anion on the resin, usually chloride or hydroxyl. These systems can be recharged and should be as the resins are very expensive. The recharging may be just a small annoyance (as with sodium chloride resins) or potentially hazardous (as with hydrogen/hydroxyl resins).
We offer very affordable R/O-R/O DI units on our website http://clix.to/Apisto
I hope this answers your questions
Max
 

Neil

New Member
Messages
1,583
Location
Sacramento, Ca.
Max,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Love your pictures, Max! 8O The RO units look good, but I am really interested in that automatic reservior shut-off. Boy that would be helpful.
Thanks for the great info on RO. Neil
 

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