• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Problem introducing a new male

FoggyPants

New Member
Messages
4
Location
West Sussex, UK
Hi,

I had a rather unfortunate inccident the other day. In June last year, I bought a pair of A. Viejita's. Well, I say that. The shop, Maidenhead Aquatics, advertised them as Viejita's but having read more in to this on the net recently, it sounds like there have not been any imports of Viejita's to the UK for many years and they are more likely to be Macmatseri.

Anyhow, I rather stupidly fed them when I got home late and tired and forgot to slide the lid closed. I've had issues with my Tetras taking a leap of faith, but this time the male Apisto seems to have done it. previously I've found the dead Tetra on the floor, but I suspect one of my cats noticed the male and had a late night snack. The pair were very happy in the tank and did have an attempt at breeding once but the eggs didn't appear to survive. I've since given them more places to hide away etc so was quite gutted to find him gone.

After much searching, I found another branch of Maidenhead Aquatics that had one lone male advertised as a Macmasteri. They were unsure of which variety of Apisto it was but guessed at Macmasteri and when I compared to a photo on my phone of my old male the markings and fin shapes etc were identical. This male was a little less coulourful, the main body being more grey in colour where as my old male had more red overall. Happy with my find, I introduced him to the tank. Whilst in the bag floating, the female came up and appeared to give positive signs as she did not raise her fins, she started to get up close and roll on her side. However, after the water was aclimatised and I released him, it all changed. Her fins went up and she just constantly chased him and pecked at him till he coward away hidden in the plants, he was gasping very hard as well. I had to go out so thought I'd leave it as it was and hope that things would settle down.

Upon my return I could not find him anywhere and the lid was on so he could not have jumped. I eventually found him laying flat on the surface under a leaf. I thought the worst and assumed him dead but as soon as I moved the plant, he swam a bit, quite cautiously, but steady. I decided to move him from the large tank to my smaller tank with Blue Tetra and he is now swimming about happy as larry. I can get some photos tomorrow of the two, but what I'm trying to find out is whether introducing a male to my female should bring on such a nasty reaction from her? I know females are territorial, but is she missing her old mate and sees the new male as an enemy? Am I too quick in introducing a new male, might they get on if I give it some time as the old male has only just departed?

I'm certain that he is a male and I'm sure they are the same species, whether that be Viejita or Macmasteri so technically he should be chasing her, not her trying to attack him? Luckily I have the second tank and he is a great addition to that community.

As I say, I'll try and get good quality photos tomorrow and post them up.

Pete
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Personally, I think that your first mistake was putting him in an established tank. You should always quarantine new fish - no matter how healthy they look. You never know what they carry on/in them and pass on to the other fish in the tank. The second mistake was putting the male in a female's territory (now the entire tank!). The best way to introduce new cichlids is to rearrange the aquascape so that neither fish recognize an old territory and thus have to re-establish territories. That puts them on an even standing.
 

dpien

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
56
Location
Manchester, UK
Hi Pete, I have seen similar aggression between A. macmasteri individuals (unless they're kept in larger groups).
The non-breeding females do seem to be less 'timid'/submissive than those of many other species I've kept. If I were you (provided both fish are very healthy) I would put the female in the larger community tank and the male on his own with a few ditherfish (eg. tetra's or pencilfish) in the smaller tank for about a week or more, until both are completely settled again.
Then rearrange the 'furniture' in the smaller tank (or completely remove it, i.e. caves, plants, hiding places etc., for a short while) and reintroduce the female to the male in his territory.
If this doesn't work, mix them together with several other species in a crowded community tank, the larger the better of course.
I finally had success unexpectedly with the latter method. My 'difficult' couple ended up spawning in a crowded 3 foot tank, amongst several other community cichlids and ditherfish. If I didn't check carefully every day I wouldn't have noticed that the female suddenly was guarding eggs in one of the little caves!
Good luck... they are a nice species and well worth the effort.
Dan
 

bigbird

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
593
Location
Sydney, NSW Australia
Hi,

Agree, always quarantine new fish. Anyway also what I do when I introduce any new fish is rearrange the whole furniture from caves to rocks etc and also make sure there are enough hidding spots for all fish and break the line of sight. They are cool and stunning fish . cheers jk :cool:
 

FoggyPants

New Member
Messages
4
Location
West Sussex, UK
I must admit, I am a bit fool hardy by adding new fish without first quarantine first. Probably more through luck, I've only had a problem once with some cardinal tetra which are quite sensetive creatures but I will take that on board for any future purchases as I have a spare small third tank and a heater so ideal.

I also had not thought about that fact the female now treats the whole tank as her own so any introduction is intruding on her space. Sounds very good... and now obvious advice to rearrange the tank. Think I'll do as suggested and wait a week, introduce the female to the male in the smaller tank and see what happens. This will give the female time to settle and give the male a chance to make the small tank his own and hopefully feel strong to make a stand against her. Then if all else fails, rearrange the big tank and put them both in there and see where things go.

Worst case, I'll be happy with them in seperate tanks.
 

FoggyPants

New Member
Messages
4
Location
West Sussex, UK
keep us posted how it goes...cheers jk :cool:

Well, step one seems to be a success so far. I've put madam in the smaller tank with the male and at first he had a show of fins but has settled down. She is wandering round the tank and he is ambling along with her. Infact he seems quite inseperable from her now, totally different to before.

So what advice would you give for transferring them in to the bigger tank?

I'm guessing it's best to let them be in the small tank for a while, perhaps a couple of weeks to get them settle from all the disruption. I've had a shift around in the main tank and it looks very different. The fish in there will need time to settle as well.

When I do go to transfer the Apisto's, how do I do that? Both at the same time, or male first, let him settle and then the female? Any advice there would be welcomed.

Pete
 

dpien

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
56
Location
Manchester, UK
Good news, Pete! I hope you have a small cave in this aquarium in case they want to breed (you'll notice the female guarding the eggs in the cave if this happens).
Word of caution, though: you'll have to watch them very carefully over the next few days. If she turns on him again, or vice versa, there'll be nowhere to hide or escape to in this small aquarium.
(I have a pair of A. steindachneri which lived happily together for more than a year in a small community tank until they spawned recently, after I separated them to a breeding tank. After spawning, the female started attacking the male and I had to remove him VERY quickly... not the first time I've observed this either, same thing before with a pair of A. cruzi and P. taeniatus 'kienke').
If there's fighting again, transfer both of them simultaneously to the larger aquarium and provide plenty of cover and hiding places (coconut caves, bogwood etc.) If this doesn't work, you'll need to keep them separately and maybe try again after a few weeks.
In my opinion, the most important thing in cichlid keeping and husbandry is frequent OBSERVATION, followed by INTERVENTION when a set-up doesn't work...
Good luck,
Dan
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,916
Messages
116,205
Members
13,028
Latest member
JaconieMalonie

Latest profile posts

Josh wrote on anewbie's profile.
Testing
EDO
Longtime fish enthusiast for over 70years......keen on Apistos now. How do I post videos?
Looking for some help with fighting electric blue rams :(
Partial updated Peruvian list have more than this. Please PM FOR ANY QUESTIONS so hard to post with all the ads poping up every 2 seconds….
Top