Planning new tank

[aquachromis]

I currently have a 58 gallon tank (36"x18"x21") that is set up with tanganyika cichlids but I'm getting really bored with it. I should have just stuck with new world cichlids that I know and love, but anyway, I've decided I want to totally re-do the tank and I want to try a tank with some dwarf South American cichlids. Over the next few months I want to get rid of the Africans, find the perfect driftwood and plants and get the tank ready for the new residents. I've also found an Oak tree in my neighborhood to collect some leaves from in the next month or so once then start to drop.

Now I need help from the experts regarding stocking the tank. I've never kept Apistogramma before so I'd like to stick with a species that is relatively hardy and easy to breed. I'd also like to keep some other smaller SA cichlid in with them as well as a small school of some tetra and a few Otos for algae control. So, here is the list I've put together of cichlids I like the looks of:

One pair or trio of one of these species:
A. cacatuoides
A. agassizii
A. bitaeniata
A. macmasteri
A. viejita
A. eremnopyge
A. trifasciata
A. baenschi

Would any of the following work in this tank along with the Apistos?
Dicrossus filamentosus
Crenicara punctulatum
Cleithracara maronii
Bujurquina vittata
Nannacara anomala
Nannacara aureocephalus
Laetacara curviceps
Laetatcara dorsigera
Aequidens biseriatus

Any and all help/comments will be appreciated.

Thanks
-Adam

 

[Neil]

aquachromis,

In that size tank, you should be able to safely house 2 species of Apistogramma and probably one of the other SA species that you have listed. Stay away from housing 2 species of the same grouping together (viejita/macmasteri or eremnopyge/bitaeniata). This will reduce the possiblity of aggression. Won't eliminate, just reduce.

Most of your choices for the non-apistos are relatively passive and should work well in the tank. They all have a different breeding stategy than Apistogramma, so you will need to consider that in setting up you tank. It also seems that open spawners don't seem as interested in territorial aggression against cave spawner. Not sure why, but I have had that experience.

Narrow your list a bit by deciding which few specifically you really like and run a search on them here. You should find a ton of info on most.

Good luck,

Neil

 

[aquachromis]

Thanks Neil,
I've gone through my list and divided the Apistos into their Groups as you suggested. Can someone tell me if I have them divided correctly?

- agassizii/elizabethae

- bitaeniata/eremnopyge

- baenschi/cacatuoides

- macmasteri/viejita

- trifasciata

 

[aspen]

i like mixing fish of different size, the smaller being agressive and the larger being very tame. ie, an apisto species and say, cleithecara maronii. i would not mix nannacara with smaller cichlids, they are very agressive breeders.

larger fish that have worked well as tankmates for s/a dwarfs are, discus (a single discus would be very nice in that tank) keyholes (maronii), curviceps and biotodomo cupido. you provide the well sheltered bottom area, maybe even covered in oak leaves for the dwarfs, and an open upper level for the open water fish. fyi, maronii will become more open water fish without a larger species in the tank. otherwise they seem very shy when mixed with larger cichlids ime.

jme, rick

 

[Mike Wise]

Adam,

Actually, A. baenschi is more closely related to A. nijsseni/panduro than A. cacatuoides. A. elizabethae is probably more closely related to Taeniacara candidi than A. agassizii.

 

[Apistt_ed]

..

amazing stuff Mike! A. Elizabethae is more closely related to T. Candidi? I thought it was more related to A. Agassizii because of the blue spot just below the eye on the lip like all in the aggie group. that was the belief of the relations between them, but I would love to hear why it might be or is closer related to T. Candidi than A. Agassizii as previously believed. Or is it that T. Candidi should be Apistogramma Candidi? I love stuff like this..

** Never MIND... read it in the next post i see..**

 

[Neil]

aquachromis,

- agassizii/elizabethae

- bitaeniata/eremnopyge

- baenschi/cacatuoides

- macmasteri/viejita

- trifasciata

For the fish that you have listed on your want-list, yes, you have them aligned with their closest matches.

Neil

 

[Mike Wise]

Obviously, you didn't see my ACA program this year. OK, here goes.

Koslowski (2002) showed that the genus Apistogramma can be broken down into several groupings (super-groups ?) that he calls lineages. Each lineage has certain physical (and behavioral) features that separate them for other lineages. The A.-agassizii-lineage is characterized by:

1. a reduction of the infraorbital pores from 4 to 3
2. a reduction of the dental pores from 5 to 4
3. all species possessing a metallic blue patch at the corner of the mouth.
4. all species using a frontal display with open mouths and closed gill covers.

The combination of these features seems to indicate of monophyletic origin.

Koslowski divided the agassizii-lineage into 5 species-groups (probably most primitive to most advanced):

gibbiceps-group

elizabethae-group

Taeniacara-group
┌ bitaeniata-complex
bitaeniata-group -│ (we have added these since then)
└ paucisquamis-complex

┌ agassizii-complex
agassizii-group - │
└ pulchra-complex

I believe that the A.-agassizii-lineage (and diplotaenia-group) originated from a lyre-tailed species belonging to the iniridae-group. A. gibbiceps & A. roraime (gibbiceps-group) show many of the features seen on, say A. uaupesi.

Looking at A. elizabethae we see many featres in common with A. gibbiceps:

Elongate spindle shaped body, broad lateral band, dorsal fin with serrated edge & elongated anterior spines, double tipped caudal with horizontal dark stripes running between the rays (modified in some specimens of A. elizabethae into a spade shaped tail).

Comparing A. elizabethae with Taeniacara candidi, we see some similarities, too. Both show an elongated spindle shaped body, broad lateral band, & elongated spade shaped tail (on some A. elizabethae). There are, however, many differences between the 2 species - both structurally and behaviorally. It is quite possible that that we are actually looking at T. candidi splitting away from the rest of the agassizii-lineage fairly early and actually seeing convergent evolution. The existence of a picture of an A. elizabethae-like species (having a slight lyre tail) with an very low even dorsal fin as seen on T. candidi makes me uncertain which of the above is true. Still A. elizabethae is much more like A. gibbiceps than A. agassizii. In truth, A. agassizii is structurally almost identical to A. bitaeniata.

I don't know if this make anything more clear. I recommend reading Koslowski's book. He goes into more detail.

 

[Fisherking]

Does the Koslowski's book come in english?

 

[Neil]

Obviously, you didn't see my ACA program this year. OK, here goes.

Yes, I did see your ACA program. As a matter of fact, I recorded it.
But thanks for the reminder. Although he only intended keeping a pair or trio of one Apistogramma species, I mentioned that aquachromis could probably keep 2 in his tank. I also am acknowledging his attempt to take the specific species that he is interested in and avoiding the ones he probably shouldn't be placing together in his tank. Although elizabethae was not on his want list, I suspect that agassizii would not be an appropriate cohabitant for them (as most apistos wouldn't-mean little buggers! :twisted: ). And for some reason, I have had reasonable results keeping bitaeniata and agassizii together.

Neil

 

[Mike Wise]

Does the Koslowski's book come in english?

No, not yet. But stay tuned for coming attractions!