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nannacara aureocephalus

rasmusW

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
hi all!

lately my fish focus have been on these little ones. -And especially on the "rio Kaw" color morph, as i have seen them on a LFS list fairly closeby.
is there anybody here, who have kept them and got any pictures to share? - i have only seen one picture of it.
also any other useful info. i have read, softwater, ph around 5-6 and that they are secretive/open spawners.
how big fry batches, do they usually get?

if i "go this route" i'm thinking of n. beckfordi or h. roseus as dither. -is corydoras out of the picture if i want to breed the nannacaras?

thanks in advance..

-r
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
10,817
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I suggest you read reports on this species. Most dwarf cichlid books discuss it. Yes, it is more demanding than N. anomala with regard to water values, but behavior-wise it is very similiar to this species. Female are much more protective of fry than most small cichlids. Corys are definitely out of the picture unless you plan to house them in a 6' long tank.
 

rasmusW

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
Thanks Mike!

I always try to read up as much as posible, in my chiclid atlas (-decifering german isn’t always easy but doable) and on various sites before asking here.
I’m a bit uncertain of the beckfordi’s. I guess if they are apisto fry predators, they would’t shy away from nannacaras either. Probally goes for the h. Roseus aswell.

The plan is to house a pair in my 155 liter (120x36x36) tank.

-r
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
735
The book i have sez they should be kept in their natural water habitat which is 0-1 gh 0 kh ph 5.8 to 6.0 and conductivity 30 us. Oddly it doesn't mention temp. Beyond that they say it is an easy fish to keep and very similar to Nannacara anomala. Extremely peaceful torwards other fishes but very high aggression with same species (i.e, only 1 male). The picture in the book make it appear quite lovely. If it has the same behavior as anomala (which i find one of the more interesting dwarves i've kept from a behavior perspective). My anomala has shown extreme politeness towards other fishes 'cept those he dislikes and for the one he dislikes he is a relentless attacker waiting for them to show up (the aggression was not intentional and eventually i had to remove the other fishes he disliked to prevent harm - esp when they started to gang up on him).
 

Eddy. E.

Member
Messages
51
Location
Germany
The book i have sez they should be kept in their natural water habitat which is 0-1 gh 0 kh ph 5.8 to 6.0 and conductivity 30 us.
If that's true, I'll eat a broom. I don't know this book, but I think it's utterly nonsense! KH 0? That already generates a drop in acidity, which can't possibly be the goal? I can put up with a KH of 2-3. And that alone is already dangerous in an aquarium.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
428
Location
San Francisco
If that's true, I'll eat a broom. I don't know this book, but I think it's utterly nonsense! KH 0? That already generates a drop in acidity, which can't possibly be the goal? I can put up with a KH of 2-3. And that alone is already dangerous in an aquarium.
My blackwater tanks run at KH 0, and dissolved CO2 - carbonate keeps the pH at around 6. Very difficult to get it lower without adding acid.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,740
Location
Germany
If that's true, I'll eat a broom. I don't know this book, but I think it's utterly nonsense! KH 0? That already generates a drop in acidity, which can't possibly be the goal? I can put up with a KH of 2-3. And that alone is already dangerous in an aquarium.
Eddy, you know my tanks also run on pretty much those readings for quite some time. Enough humic substances and this works easy-peasy. They buffer in the 4-6 pH range.
It's by no means a necessity for eeevery species, but appreciated by all of them.
 

rasmusW

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
Thanks a lot for the help folks.
I hope to get a chance to actually go see them at the store soon.

One thing i find a bit funny.. in most of the descriptions i have read on this species, they suggest a well plantet tank, but in the few videos i have seen from their wild habitat it looks more like a “typical leaflitter bed (=dead leafs and wood).
It’s ofcause hard to actually tell from small video clips.

-r
 
Last edited:

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
735
Thanks a lot for the help folks.
I hope to get a chance to actually go see them at the store soon.

One thing i find a bit funny.. in most of the descriptions i have read on this species, they suggest a well plantet tank, but in the few videos i have seen from their wild habitat it looks more like a “typical leaflitter bed (=dead leafs and wood).
It’s ofcause hard to actually tell from small video clips.

-r
For amolae the book i have said that well planted is appreciated; the one i have are in an extremely densely planted tank and he seems to enjoy it as it gives him ability to set up ambushes. He is at heart as far as i can tell an ambush predator who will set perfectly still for hours waiting for prey (his favorite prey is just outside the male bn cave awaiting new arrivals). He does seem to leave small fishes alone otherwise including guppy frys which is unfortunate for myself.
 

Mazan

Active Member
Messages
232
If that's true, I'll eat a broom. I don't know this book, but I think it's utterly nonsense! KH 0? That already generates a drop in acidity, which can't possibly be the goal? I can put up with a KH of 2-3. And that alone is already dangerous in an aquarium.
I also have KH 0-1 from the tap and have not experienced any pH crashes as far as I am aware.
 

Eddy. E.

Member
Messages
51
Location
Germany
Eddy, you know my tanks also run on pretty much those readings for quite some time. Enough humic substances and this works easy-peasy. They buffer in the 4-6 pH range.
It's by no means a necessity for eeevery species, but appreciated by all of them.
Only the acid binding capacity is tested. And not all partners of the hydrogen carbonate are measured, so such measurements are guaranteed not 100% correct. Tests for carbonate hardness in aquaristics measure all carbonate and hydrogen carbonate ions without regard to the alkaline earth ions. Thus, the carbonate hardness is not measured. The acid capacity is measured. Drop tests are a titration with diluted hydrochloric acid against an indicator, or have I slipped up somewhere?
I don't want to argue, but if you tell me your KH is equal = 0, then I find that pretty hard to believe. Even if humic substances are involved here.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,740
Location
Germany
Only the acid binding capacity is tested. And not all partners of the hydrogen carbonate are measured, so such measurements are guaranteed not 100% correct. Tests for carbonate hardness in aquaristics measure all carbonate and hydrogen carbonate ions without regard to the alkaline earth ions. Thus, the carbonate hardness is not measured. The acid capacity is measured. Drop tests are a titration with diluted hydrochloric acid against an indicator, or have I slipped up somewhere?
I don't even regularly test for KH/GH anymore but I know how the tests work. I don't want to argue either and can't see a reason to.

Let's put it this way: If my sourcewater is 100% RO with a TDS of 5-7mg/l residual ions (mostly metal ions) and I can trace the parts of the TDS to the final reading of 30-40mg/l back to DOC and nitrogen compounds, as well as added humic substances and a fertilizer that doesn't contain anything that raises carbonates and only minimal amounts of calcium and magnesium (keeping GH still below 1°), I can confidently say KH and GH are close to zero or at least below detection level.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
428
Location
San Francisco
Same, I’ve tested the pH of RODI with EC of about 7. Adding strong acid dropwise to lower the pH to 4, it eventually drifts up toward 5.5 if left out (I previously said 6, but double checked my notes). This is what I observe in my tanks. The only possible source of carbonate is dissolved CO2. So I add additional acid to the incoming water to neutralize that. Without adding additional acid, the pH definitely behaves as though it’s buffered at 5.5. Other blackwater aquarists have observed this as well.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
735
While i do not want people to argue i am interested in the resolution from a technical perspective. In my case I intend to use relatively pure ro water and inert substrate - so i cannot say for sure that kh is 0 but it is certianly not going to be high.
 

rasmusW

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
Hey!!! One more question.
Have anyone ever kept these (Hypoptopoma Cf. Guianense) and would they be safe to add to a tank like this?
Should they be kept in groups like other otos?
-r
 

rasmusW

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
Edit: i just realised the hypoptopoma i asked about are from Guyana and not French Guiana…
-my question regarding them still hold though.

-r
 

Apistomaster

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
664
Location
Clarkston, WA
Hey!!! One more question.
Have anyone ever kept these (Hypoptopoma Cf. Guianense) and would they be safe to add to a tank like this?
Should they be kept in groups like other otos?
I think Hypotopoma do appreciate the presence of at least 3 or 4 of their own kind. Not quite as gregarious as Otocinclus as Otos frequently occur in groups numbering in the 1000's.
I've kept a group of 12 Nannoptopoma and they were very sociable. They are very small and seemed to require very high dissolved O2 and mid 70's degrees F.
They tended to group on a bare glass spot in the front of a powerhead where it blew away the substrate.
I think having a strong current is important for these Loricariidae. This may be an issue of some concern for your setup. These are quite a find. Where were you able to get some? In case you haven't already seen this, here is their species summary on planetcatfish. https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=2535
Not much info on this species.

As for the Characins, I would go with the Hyphessobrycon roseus because they are about as small as H. amandae.
I avoid N. beckfordi because they are more predatory compared to smaller pencils like N. marginatus or N. eques.
 

rasmusW

Well-Known Member
Messages
339
I think Hypotopoma do appreciate the presence of at least 3 or 4 of their own kind. Not quite as gregarious as Otocinclus as Otos frequently occur in groups numbering in the 1000's.
I've kept a group of 12 Nannoptopoma and they were very sociable. They are very small and seemed to require very high dissolved O2 and mid 70's degrees F.
They tended to group on a bare glass spot in the front of a powerhead where it blew away the substrate.
I think having a strong current is important for these Loricariidae. This may be an issue of some concern for your setup. These are quite a find. Where were you able to get some? In case you haven't already seen this, here is their species summary on planetcatfish. https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=2535
Not much info on this species.

As for the Characins, I would go with the Hyphessobrycon roseus because they are about as small as H. amandae.
I avoid N. beckfordi because they are more predatory compared to smaller pencils like N. marginatus or N. eques.
Thank you for the great input.
I haven’t bought any fish for this setup yet. I’m basically just dreaming and prepping.

I read a description on planetcatfish about a closely related species from brazil or Peru. But i don’t recall it mentioning how to best care for them nor the numbers.
I’m guessing the pricetag would reflect it’s rarity.
-btw. It’s on Ruinemans stocklist.

I have been digging a bit deeper on the n. Aureocephalus and have a few questions.
I saw an older thread on this board, where potentionally closely related species where discussed.
Is there any news on the nanacara family?
In this thread (-which i ofcause can’t find atm.) some smaller forms like n. Sp. Yiyi was also discussed.
Have these species been clarified?

I hope these questions where understandeble…

Thanks in advance.

-r
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,740
Location
Germany
I have been digging a bit deeper on the n. Aureocephalus and have a few questions.
I saw an older thread on this board, where potentionally closely related species where discussed.
Is there any news on the nanacara family?
In this thread (-which i ofcause can’t find atm.) some smaller forms like n. Sp. Yiyi was also discussed.
Have these species been clarified?
The last revision of the Genus Nannacara I know of ended in the establishment of Ivanacara in 2006. I haven't found any species descriptions of Nannacara species dating later.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
10,817
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I haven't kept up with my Nannacara species list for some time now. From what I know, there are only 4 described Nannacara species: N. anomala, N. aureocephalus, N. quadrispinnae, and N. taeniata. N. sp. Yiyi, from the Crique Yiyi in French Guiana, occurs in a protected area of the French province (yes, it is part of France). Its distribution is in the middle of that of N.. aureocephalus. In all respects it appears to be a population of N. aureocephalus, albeit a smaller form. Seven other forms have been discussed in hobby literature, but these are most likely populations of N. anomala or N. aureocephalus.
 

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Prontodelivery wrote on Apistoguy52's profile.
Do you still have the F1 Ivanacara adoketa “red” from the Rio Icana, interested in getting 2 Pairs.
mikishuhoo wrote on Apistoguy52's profile.
Hi,

Do you still have Apistogramma diplotaenia pairs available to sell? Please advise. Thanks.

Kenny
I'm clueless. If I say something you can safely ignore it.
Apistomaster wrote on anewbie's profile.
I see that The Wet Spot Tropical Fish currently has the fire red A. agassizi you are looking for. Here is the link:
I've always had good experiences buying from them on line.
Hallo,
I am Hanzle from Holland and keep apistoos for 40 years. Had my own aquarium shop from 1984 till 1988. Always s great fan from apistoos and hyphessobrycon which is s great combination in a Community Aquarium. Perhaps.....in the near future I start breeding apistoos again. Have a 400 liters Community aquarium for hyphessobrycon wadai and apistogramma biteaniata.
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