my borellii juvies are spawning!?

[cootwarm]

I put 6 juvie borelliis in a 30 gal long with 4 beckfordi pencilfish and 1 oto cat about 3 weeks ago. The largest, (the dominate male) is perhaps a little over 1 inch the rest are barely .75 inch. Yesterday, I noticed 2 of the females were yellow and each was defending a separate part of the driftwood. The places they were keeping trespassers away from, were on the backside where I couldn't see anything.

However, just a short time ago, I witnessed a third female had turned yellow and she was spawning on the front side of the same piece of driftwood with the dominant male! I thought they were way too young and it would be at least a couple months before they spawned! But it appears that I may already have 3 spawnings currently in my borellii tank.

Is it typical for borellii to spawn while they are still so tiny?

I also have a 30 gal long with 7 viejitas that are all just over an inch in size. Should I soon expect some action there as well?

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

Well, I guess they're legit. Two days later the eggs are still a yellowish tint, so I guess they're fertile. I can't believe they are so tiny and still able to spawn! She didn't lay many (about 25). I guess I'll see in a couple days if I get wigglers!

I read up on the borellii in Romers Atlas. So I guess I shouldn't have been that suprised. He says that borellii aren't full grown until about a year, but they're sexually mature in 6 months. Also it states that borellii aren't too fussy about their pH and hardness. (I have soft water, but pH a little high)

One thing though, Romers atlas states that the male borellii usually shares a common territory and spawns with just one female. I have 2 males and 4 females. It appears to me that the dominant male spawned with all 3 females that now appear to be caring for brood. I guess the key word in the Romer text is "usually"!

It's hard to be certain who the father is for the first 2 spawnings, as I didn't witness it and the male doesn't appear to be protecting any of the territories. Matter of fact, it seems that all three females are each caring for their own brood without the assisance of a male, as all three females drive away any fish that enter their respective territories (including the dominant male!) Perhaps the behavior will change when there is free swimming fry.

Michael

 

[Moi_Eater]

Good luck with your three borellii spawns! I had two pairs of viejitas in a 55g community tank with 8 rummynose tetras, 2pr Blue Rams, 3 pairs of cory species, 1 pictus cat, 2 juv syno eupterus, and 3 female cacs.

I put the dominant male and the larger female in their own 20H tank and a month later I noticed the smaller female in the 55 had turned yellow. I found that she had spawned in a small crevice between a rock and the driftwood centerpiece. A couple days later the eggs were gone, so either the female ate them or they were eaten by the other tank inhabitants.

I was hoping they would spawn again, but for some weird reason the male viejita (which was the larger and more nicely colored of the two males) jumped out and perished. :cry:

I put the female in a planted 10 with a couple caves and put the other male viejita with her. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Sam,

I don't expect anything soon from my viejitas. I think my pH is much too high (7.4 - 7.6) for them to spawn. I haven't really tried manipulating my pH yet because I don't want to use chemicals. Thank you for sharing your experiment results with us. It was very helpful. I expected the activated charcoal to be beneficial not the negative results you reported.

I might try peat treating some of my water sometime soon, but I probably won't do any serious work on lowering my pH until October when I'll be installing an R/O filter. Then I'll have something to work with.

By the way, the borellii eggs have hatched! I have wigglers! I guess they were fertile. It still amazes me at the small size of the mothers. Sounds like a good indication of a long productive life for them.

Michael

 

[Moi_Eater]

Congrats on the successful spawn! I am also planning on getting a RO system soon. I want to be able to reduce the kH of my tapwater so I can lower the pH easier with natural methods if possible.

Oh, by the way the pH of the tank I had one pair of viejitas in to breed was around 7 and they didn't show any indication of spawning, but the community tank that the other viejita pair did spawn in the ph was 8.3! So I don't think that pH is a critical factor in getting them to spawn!

 

[cootwarm]

I've got one batch of free-swimming fry and 2 batches of wigglers. None of the 3 females will let the dominate male anywhere near their areas. Ocassionaly they will have a spat amoungst themselves as they all staked out their territories on different spots on the same piece of driftwood.

Now I have a couple questions:

How will the different mothers react to each others fry? Will they eat them? Or will they try to adopt them?

Does anyone think the young will be unhealthy or runts due to the small size and young age of the mothers? Perhaps the subsequent spawnings will be healthier?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[aspen]

hi michael, i don't think it is all that likely that your fish will be runts, but i do believe that egg size has a lot to do with fry size, and second and consequetive spawns seem to produce more, larger, healthier fry. there is no reason that these fish won't turn out pretty good, provided you give them good food and clean water. if these are your first dwarf spawns, then try your best, and don't be cheap with the bbs when they start eating. you want to see lots of orange bellies. 3x per day is not too much. continue with the bbs till long after they are accepting larger foods, they will grow that much better.

as for what the females might do when they see the others' fry? well, they might just adopt them and raise them as their own. i highly doubt (ime) that the other mothers will be quick to eat the other fish's fry. it is more likely that the fry will be coralled by other mothers when they see them and raised as their own.

good luck, now the fun really starts. i love raising lots of little baby fish with parental care.

rick

 

[Neil]

Michael,

I agree with everything aspen has said. The size of your female should not affect the size of the offspring, possible only the clutch size.

I have had females do just about everything in regards to other batches of fry, but it is entirely likely that one will adopt at least some of the others fry. If she takes them all, the lone female may end up being chase by both the male and remaining females.

It is a pretty good problem to have because, if one female flakes out and eats the fry, there is back-ups there. Congratulations on a triple play.

Neil

 

[cootwarm]

Update>

Ten days. So far, so good! 8)

All 3 borellii families are doing fine. By family, I mean moms with fry. Each family unit consists of 1 or 2 dozen young and mom. The male has no part at all in the care or even protection of any of his 3 families. But then he has no opportunity, as the females chase him away anytime he wanders too close.

It's funny, he is the dominant male and twice the size of the females, but you should see him high-tail it when any of the mothers come after him! He still acts like a big shot to the other tank occupants, but his wives remind him who's really boss! Imagine that! A hen-pecked borellii! :wink:

So far no kidnapping as far as I can tell. The 3 mothers seem to get along fine. They don't mingle or anything like that. They just keep their space as they swim around the tank. Like there is an invisible barrier keeping them a certain distance apart. Only once, I saw one mother charge at another. But it was just a threat, as she didn't follow through.

I feed them a variety of live foods.

I give the fry a dose of vinegar eels in the morning before I leave to work.
When I get home from work they get some BBS and then about an hour or so before I go to bed I feed them microworms. They seem to enjoy all 3 foods and it works for me.

Michael