How to alter my water parameters "naturally"

[Pnyklr]

I cacatuoides do not have eggs nearly as often as I think they should be (at least from what I hear from others' experiences). I suspect that my water parameters are the cause.

Tank (55) right now:

pH of over 8.4 (I think it is closer to 9, but my kit only goes to 8.4)
Total Hardness (GH) 50 ppm
Total Alkalinity (KH) 300 ppm

(I hope I labeled them correctly...I copied the test kit)

Is it odd that the pH and alkalinity are so high, yet the hardness is not? I have nothing in the tank that will change the pH and hardness. I have a HOB filter and am currently running an air stone (necessary when I had to raise the water temp for an ich problem....the temp is slowly being brought back down).

I have looked into adding peat, but I am running into one problem: soaking the peat in the water for days before the water change. I have no where to store the soaking water, and no easy means of getting it into the tank. I considered adding the peat to the filter, but is this "best practice?" I assume peat have a "stopping point" where it no longer will be effectove at maintaining the low pH, and the pH will start to climb again; is this correct?

If CO2 drive the pH down, won't adding the airstone push it up? PLease help me to understand the best way to get my water more appropriate for apistos.

Thanks in advance...and sorry for the lengthy post!

 

[Adam - Sydney]

I have the same problem but the other way. My pH according to an electronic kit was found to be 3.2 today. I had used a small amount of water acidifyer and softener, and i mean very small amout somewhere in the range of 1/30th of recommended dose. I put some rasbora in, within an hour they were dead, within 3 they had no scales or tails. Thats when i knew something was wrong. Ive no idea why its so low, my tap water is ph 7.6

Adam

I dont mean to hijack the post but i feel that both topics are parallel and could be addressed here.

 

[Mike Wise]

I cacatuoides do not have eggs nearly as often as I think they should be (at least from what I hear from others' experiences). I suspect that my water parameters are the cause.

If your fish are living well in your water & your female doesn't fill with eggs, then I suspect that you need to change their diet. If she is spawning but the eggs aren't developing, then it probably is your water conditions.

Is it odd that the pH and alkalinity are so high, yet the hardness is not? I have nothing in the tank that will change the pH and hardness.

Not really. Alkalinity has a greater effect on pH than total hardness (GH). Without reducing your alkalinity (~17ºKH), you will find it extremely difficult to lower the pH. Running your water through peat certainly won't work. I'd suggest that you dilute your tap water by at least half with either distilled or R/O water. Then run this through peat. You should get the pH down to the 6.8 - 7.0 range.

My pH according to an electronic kit was found to be 3.2 today. ... Ive no idea why its so low, my tap water is ph 7.6

Graham Rowe, another Sydney resident long ago (late 70s), told me he used part coral sand in his apisto tanks. The water was so soft that many of his fish developed bent spines. I always thought that bone calcium was only from food, but it worked for him. Your water must have very low KH, allowing for wide swings in pH with only small additions of acid (whether added or produced naturally by the biological processes going on in your tank. I will bet that your water is naturally acid, and the local water department adds a base like (NaOH) to the water. They do this to raise the pH so it will not corrode the water pipes. That's what they do here in Denver. This is not a good buffer so the water quickly reverts back to its acid condition.

 

[Pnyklr]

I post my diet, and you guys tell me what is wrong with it! :biggrin:

I alternate between frozen foods, mostly because my male will touch nothing else (flake, pellets). I feed brine shrimp, blood worms, beef heart, plankton, a "veggie" concoction (has greens and some bs in it). I have also thrown in some tuna before, and they go ape over that!

Anything I should change/do differently? My females are often yellow, but rarely ever guard caves. In my entire apisto experience, I have only had eggs (that I know of) twice. Both times, the the eggs were eaten (I believe by the female). The eggs that I saw were fertilized (red). I have a new male now, and I was hoping that I could figure out the problem, and get some fry!

I guess I was concerned because I have read of apistos spawning 2-4 time in a 6-week period....and mine have spawned about 2 times (again, that I know of) in a year! Please, keep the suggestions rolling!

 

[Mike Wise]

Your fish get a much better diet than mine - except that mine get a lot of live baby brine shimp, too. I think that your water is the problem. They may be breeding in places that you don't notice & then eat the eggs because they don't develop. Red eggs are NOT a sign of fertile eggs. It is an indication of the female eating a lot of color-rich foods. White, tan, pink, red, & even green eggs can be laid. They may or may not be fertile.

 

[Pnyklr]

Ahh, I see. I thought red=good, white=bad (fungus), and that there was nothing in between. As you can see, I am a beginner with trying to breed fish!

So, my best bet would be to add in some RO water to my tank to lower the ph? If this is the case, the pH would never be lower than 7, correct? Should I treat the RO water with peat, add peat into the filter (with the RO/tap mixture water), or is there really nothing more I could do with the buffering that I have?

What I am looking to do is lower the pH in such a way that it remains as stable as possible. I also want to keep this as simple as possible when it comes to water changes. I have a python for the simplicity it offers during water changes (I spent many months lifting heavy bucket to fill the tank...always praying that I wouldn't bust the tank).

 

[Mike Wise]

I thought red=good, white=bad (fungus), and that there was nothing in between.

Only white & fuzzy=bad (fungus).

What I am looking to do is lower the pH in such a way that it remains as stable as possible. I also want to keep this as simple as possible when it comes to water changes.

If I were you I would get a 20 gallon Rubbermaid-like storage bin in which to treat water. First mix 50/50 R/O with tap water. Then treat this (dechlorinated) water-mix with peat. Here is my set-up: In a 20 gallon bin I have a 10 gallon UGF plate. I then add about a 2 - 3"/5-7.5 cm deep layer of sphagnum moss. I use air to circulate the water through the filter, but you could use a powerhead, too. This can be messy, with peat fibers floating all over, so I made a bag the same size as the bottom surface of the bin. It is made from polyester wedding veil fabric. Think of it as a super-sized filter bag. Now the peat is put in the filter bag. Allow the water to cycle through the peat for a week. Check your pH & you'll see that it has dropped considerably, possibly into the pH 5 range (depending on the water hardness). Use this water for your water changes & it will drop your pH to a lower and stable value. I'm afraid this will require the "old bucket brigade" or you can use a powerhead (the same one for the bin, if it has a round outlet that fits a hose) to pump water through a hose into the tank - or if you can keep the treatment bin above the height of the tank, you can siphon it in.

 

[Pnyklr]

*sigh* Back to the trenches, I suppose. I have started the soak on the peat, but the water is VERY black. It seems that if I were to use it all for a water change, then I wouldn't be able to see a thing :wink:. Will things settle down a little as the bucket sits longer?

What are the arguments against having peat in the filter (HOB)? Could I put a bag of peat in the filter after I do an initial water change with the bucket?

Should I pull the carbon out of my filter? It is an AquaClear; has 3 "levels": sponge, carbon, biobag.

Thanks for the gobs of help so far. Hopefully, I can see some fry soon!