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Cacatuoides Harem in 55 gallon

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
Hi folks, I've got a cacatuoides male and 2 females in a 55 gallon, along with 3 raspboras. My goal is to breed them without having to seperate any fish at all. The tank has 4 caves, all blocking line of sight from each other. I've attached a pic of my setup, any advice on this would be great! Thank you!
 

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MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,902
Location
Germany
Smaller tank, just a pair, remove the male after spawning.

Getting any surviving fry out of that tank you have there will be a blast.

Do you have a buyer for any fry? If not, don't try to get any fry through. They are hard to get rid of without lying to the buyers. A store is a different thing.
Do you just want to breed for the sake of it? If so, get another species after the first 1-2 spawns. Domestic strains of A. cacatuoides are mass produced, genetic problems are obligatory and you won't improve quality by multiplying this strain anyway. A less common species will be easier to sell.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
Smaller tank, just a pair, remove the male after spawning.

Getting any surviving fry out of that tank you have there will be a blast.

Do you have a buyer for any fry? If not, don't try to get any fry through. They are hard to get rid of without lying to the buyers. A store is a different thing.
Do you just want to breed for the sake of it? If so, get another species after the first 1-2 spawns. Domestic strains of A. cacatuoides are mass produced, genetic problems are obligatory and you won't improve quality by multiplying this strain anyway. A less common species will be easier to sell.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
Smaller tank, just a pair, remove the male after spawning.

Getting any surviving fry out of that tank you have there will be a blast.

Do you have a buyer for any fry? If not, don't try to get any fry through. They are hard to get rid of without lying to the buyers. A store is a different thing.
Do you just want to breed for the sake of it? If so, get another species after the first 1-2 spawns. Domestic strains of A. cacatuoides are mass produced, genetic problems are obligatory and you won't improve quality by multiplying this strain anyway. A less common species will be easier to sell.
You didnt answer a single thing I asked, offered advice I didnt ask for, and made assumptions about my fishkeeping without knowing much. You come off like a huge jerk, not a single piece of what you said was helpful.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,902
Location
Germany
I've attached a pic of my setup, any advice on this would be great!
You did ask for advice. And said you want to breed.

I gave my impression (The tank will be not very practical for breeding. Nothing else to add.) and worded my opinion on problems concerning breeding domestic A. cacatuoides and what I find important questions, you ought to ask yourself at this point.

Being a jerk was not my intention, I just got straight to the point.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
You did ask for advice. And said you want to breed.

I gave my impression (The tank will be not very practical for breeding. Nothing else to add.) and worded my opinion on problems concerning breeding domestic A. cacatuoides and what I find important questions, you ought to ask yourself at this point.

Being a jerk was not my intention, I just got straight to the point.
I asked for advice with harem breeding in a 55 gallon. You offered zero advice, and instead gave me a generic sentance about tank size and pairing, completely unrelated to it. Then, the jerk part, you go off on some diatribe about market saturation & genetic instability. You're gatekeeping fish breeding, and that is rude, and totally antithetical to a forum of this type.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,902
Location
Germany
Interesting interpretation, very far off my intention. I want people to be successful and not run into the same problems one can see on any other forum all over the place.
But as you are already starting to accuse me of things that are not the case, I don't see it necessary to continue this conversation.

Good luck then.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
Interesting interpretation, very far off my intention. I want people to be successful and not run into the same problems one can see on any other forum all over the place.
But as you are already starting to accuse me of things that are not the case, I don't see it necessary to continue this conversation.

Good luck then

Interesting interpretation, very far off my intention. I want people to be successful and not run into the same problems one can see on any other forum all over the place.
But as you are already starting to accuse me of things that are not the case, I don't see it necessary to continue this conversation.

Good luck then.
Youre a clown.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
I asked for advice with harem breeding in a 55 gallon. You offered zero advice, and instead gave me a generic sentance about tank size and pairing, completely unrelated to it. Then, the jerk part, you go off on some diatribe about market saturation & genetic instability. You're gatekeeping fish breeding, and that is rude, and totally antithetical to a forum of this type.
Would love some actual replies from someone with actual helpful tips with harem breeding in a 55 gallon.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,173
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Yes, the setup should work for reproduction. Yes, you will have fun removing fry. That's what bottle traps are for. My only problem is the size of the hole in the cave. It is much too large. I doubt that it will be used for spawns unless you fill the cave and in front of the cave with enough substrate that a female can cover most of the opening. With good food, good water, and quality stock and you should be fine.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
Yes, the setup should work for reproduction. Yes, you will have fun removing fry. That's what bottle traps are for. My only problem is the size of the hole in the cave. It is much too large. I doubt that it will be used for spawns unless you fill the cave and in front of the cave with enough substrate that a female can cover most of the opening. With good food, good water, and quality stock and you should be fine.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. That coconut cave is huge, you're right. Its the only visible cave in the photo, I have 3 other terra cotta ones that are smaller, w smaller openings in the tank that are well hidden. With 2 females, is it a bad idea to provide so many caves? Perhaps I will remove the coconut hut, and one clay cave. Thank you!
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
564
Location
San Francisco
The one thing I would add is that you might have to separate fish sooner than you think. It's quite likely that you'll have back-to-back spawns at some point. If the spawns are separated by a couple weeks or more, the larger fry will predate on the smaller ones. So if your goal is to maximize offspring, you'll probably want to pull the male after a good spawn (or simultaneous spawns). It takes a lot of energy from the femaies to spawn, and it's better if that doesn't happen fruitlessly.

I don't need to get into a debate about it, but I do think Mac's intent was to be helpful, though it obviously didn't land that way.
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
The one thing I would add is that you might have to separate fish sooner than you think. It's quite likely that you'll have back-to-back spawns at some point. If the spawns are separated by a couple weeks or more, the larger fry will predate on the smaller ones. So if your goal is to maximize offspring, you'll probably want to pull the male after a good spawn (or simultaneous spawns). It takes a lot of energy from the femaies to spawn, and it's better if that doesn't happen fruitlessly.

I don't need to get into a debate about it, but I do think Mac's intent was to be helpful, though it obviously didn't land that way.
Thank you, that is very helpful. Yall are right, pulling fry will be a nightmare. So, instead, my plan is to use a piece of knitting plastic fabric mesh that will serve as a divider. My plan is to pull the male after they spawn, then place that divider between the females. But you have an excellent point about back to back spawns and fry predation. The holes in the mesh would allow fry to pass back and forth, I have no clue what I'd do in that scenario. Its day 2 of them being in the tank, so far the females have each claimed a side of the tank, with the male travelling all over the tank. Thank you for your advice, got some things to think about!
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
564
Location
San Francisco
I think the older fry might be more of a danger to the small fry than the femaies. There are reports of females stealing fry from other clutches to raise as their own, though I don't know if this happens with cacatuioides.

The easiest might be to just do a pair, and still pull the male after a good spawn. @Bowluvr breeds in large tanks and might have more input on the best ways to do it.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,339
I think the older fry might be more of a danger to the small fry than the femaies. There are reports of females stealing fry from other clutches to raise as their own, though I don't know if this happens with cacatuioides.

The easiest might be to just do a pair, and still pull the male after a good spawn. @Bowluvr breeds in large tanks and might have more input on the best ways to do it.
On another forum a person reported that their 2nd female stole 1/2 the frys to raise and did a better job than the female who actually laid the eggs....
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
On another forum a person reported that their 2nd female stole 1/2 the frys to raise and did a better job than the female who actually laid the eggs....
Wow, thats amazing! Well I certainly wont keep my fingers crossed hoping for that scenario. A big part of why I'm attempting a harem breed setup is to observe behavior that is otherwise not seen. Your post is a perfect example! Thank you!
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
I think the older fry might be more of a danger to the small fry than the femaies. There are reports of females stealing fry from other clutches to raise as their own, though I don't know if this happens with cacatuioides.

The easiest might be to just do a pair, and still pull the male after a good spawn. @Bowluvr breeds in large tanks and might have more input on the best ways to do it.
Wow, thats pretty incredible! You're right, a pair in a smaller tank would be easier, but Im looking for the challenge. If i can keep them healthy and safe, a harem setup may produce some interesting behavior, like you're describing. Thank you!
 

DocAwkward

New Member
Messages
13
Hi all,

It does they steal fry all the time and the dominant female always ends up with all the fry.

cheers Darrel
That's crazy... does she raise them even? When, what the, huh? That's cool, I hope I see something different as well. I don't want to compromise their health, but instead provide them the space to show behavior they don't normally have the chance to show.

Thanks for your help!
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,173
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
As for caves, the more the better and the more different types better still. As for entrances, they should be narrower than one would expect. They only need to be high enough to allow the female enter laying on her side, say 1/2"/1.25cm high. Larger openings are OK if the female can cover most of it with substrate. The interior of the cave, of course, should be more spacious.
 

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