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Cacatuoides, Agassizii or Macmasteri?

Which are the most beautiful Apistos among these?

  • Cacatuoides

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Agassizii

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Macmasteri

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Dan89

New Member
Hey guys,

i'm planning the population to put in my 120l tank with Otocinclus, Cardinals/Neon Tetra and maybe Corydoras. I find Apistos Cacatuoides, Agassizii and Macmasteri beautiful but I can't decide which one to choose.

Just a little poll: which one do you personally prefer?

And another question: the bigger are the Apistos, the better is for me. Which of the 3 species reaches the greater dimensions?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I don't care much for domestic color forms of any apisto. I much prefer wild forms.

Of the 3 species, A. macmasteri is the most massive, but A. agassizii grow longer but more slender. A. cacatuoides is somewhere in between the other 2.
 

Dan89

New Member
Are there any significat differences among the 3 species in terms of water values or behaviour?

From my understanding:
- Cacatuoides are more aggressive when breeding
- Cacatuoides can stay at higher pH (7)
- Macmasteri requires higher temperature (>25 °C)

Is it correct? What about GH and KH?
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
Are there any significat differences among the 3 species in terms of water values or behaviour?

From my understanding:
- Cacatuoides are more aggressive when breeding
- Cacatuoides can stay at higher pH (7)
- Macmasteri requires higher temperature (>25 °C)

Is it correct? What about GH and KH?
Apistogramma cacatuoides will thrive (and breed) in harder water, as long as feeding, tank set up etc are OK. I haven't kept a huge range of Apistogramma, but in my experience cacatuoides are fairly calm, even when breeding.

cheers Darrel
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
I have actually kept all three the species, Agassizii double red (tank bred), Cacatuoides triple red and orange flash (both tank bred) and Macmasteri (wild caught). I managed to breed all the 4 Apisto pairs and from my experience i reached the following conclusions.

To me the Agassizii really was the most agressive one of them all. The tank was fairly decorated but the female would still chase everything arround that would come over half of her tank.

The Macmasteri were bred in the same tank after the Agassizii when they were rehomed. From what i noticed was that the macmasteri female was less agressive (not flying arround through the whole tank) but a lot better at tanking care of the fry. She also did it together with the male, were my Agassizii female would attack her own male. These Macmasteri were really nice to keep in my community tank eventhough they were breeding.

The Cacatuoides I had were kept in a different tank. Here the female was chasing the male as well as the other fish but not as agressive as the Agassizii did. I think she was quite comparible with the Macmasteri female.

If you would like to keep otocinclus and maybe some corydoras from my experience i would skip the Agassizii and make a choice between the Cacatuoides and the Macmasteri. From what i heard wild caught fish are somewhat more agressive than tank bred fish. So based on this if you would have the choice between tank bred Cacatuoides and tank bred Macmasteri I would for a community tank go for the Macmasteri. However since i never kept tank bred Macmasteri i can't say for sure if they are indeed less agressive than the Cacatuoides are. But the most important part like Mike always says: "A community tank is not a breeding tank" :p

A suggestion if I may, Have you looked at the Apistogramma Borrelli? These are for sure the least agressive Apistogrammas and stay quite small and also show beautifull colouration. In a 120 liter tank I would dare to keep a pair with some corydoras, or just a male and 2 female without the corydoras. The Neon/Cardinal tetra and the Otocinclus would be no problem at all. Also the Borrelli i happy with a ph of 7 and does not need to have very soft water (although in my experience every Apisto thrives better when the kh is low). I believe Borrelli needs a temperature of about 23-24 degrees Celcius.

And the every last suggestion, Cardinal and Neon tetra are found in warmer waters (about 28 degrees Celcius), they do thrive at about 24-25 degrees but it's not there sweet spot. However we have also the "Paracheirodon simulans" in the hobby these days. They are also reffered to as, "false neon" or "green neon tetra". They look just like the Neon tetra but there blue is more bright and they stay a big small. Big upside about these fish is that they tend to live in waters with a temperature of about 24-25 degrees Celcius, which would be in line with the Apistogramma you like to keep.

I hope you are still alive after reading this long post and that this information was usefull to you :)
 

Fikret Celik

Member
5 Year Member
My opinion, Cacatuoides is the most characteristic fish in Apisto. Especially the males are very flashy. Cacatuoides is also very durable.I do not think this is the case for the other two species. I have looked at other species for certain times, but I never gave up on Cacatuoides...
 

HengLee

Member
"I think it's hard to judge which is the most beautiful fish.
All three are beautiful and unique in their own ways.
Also, all of them have slight variants in colours depending on how the breeders cross-breed them.

I have Cacatuoides, Agassizii, Trifasciata and Nijsseni.
I once saw a Cacatuoides with long red "dorsal" fin and blue "pelvic/anal" fin which is very beautiful.
Cacatuoides uniqueness is their long dorsal fin which make them very flashy as what Fikret mentioned above.

As for Agassizii, look for those with "dark red colour" with long and pointed tail which are very beautiful. But they can get very aggressive as what Chris mentioned above.

Female Nijsseni is beautiful because of her yellow colour.

Trifasciata with blueish colour is also very beautiful.

Also, as Chris suggested, you might want to try Borelli. They have very beautiful "umbrella" dorsal fin.

Lastly, in order to have beautiful and colourful fish, my suggestions is to try to have a combination of fish with all these 3 colours "blue, red and yellow". They will make your tank very colourful with your green plants at the background.
I have Cacatuoides with "red" colour, Honey Gourami with "yellow" colour, Trifasciata with blue colour body and some Agassizii with slight blueish colour.

But among these 3 colours, I find that "blue" colour fish is the most unique of all. So, I have some Cardinal Tetras with "red and blue" colours.
I also have some Electric Blue Ram with beautiful blue colour.
You can also consider German Blue Ram which I find them to be my "all time favourite" due to the blue dots on their fins and tail.

I also have a small "Electric Blue Dempsey" which has striking blue colour.
But only last week, I had moved my Electric Blue Dempsey to another tank as it started to get aggressive with my schooling fish - Balloon Pristella Tetra which have yellow and black stripes on their fins.
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
"
I have Cacatuoides with "red" colour, Honey Gourami with "yellow" colour, "
Be carefull with this combination. Honey Gourami and Apistogramma's are both territorial. I have once tried this combination in the beginning of my fish keeping in a 60x40x60cm tank. As soon as my Apistogramma's bred the Gourami's were killed. They don't get allong very well. If you would like a fish that lives in the upper layer of the tank, have a look at the "nannostomus eques" or the "nannostomus marginatus" or lastly the "marble hatchet fish". These are peacefull schooling fish in the upper layer of your tank.
 

HengLee

Member
You're right Chris. Thanks for pointing out.

I heard that Apistogramma can be very aggressive during breeding time especially the female. They will kill off any rival or potential threat to their fry. The female might even attack the male.

So, I'm trying not to have any breeding for my fish. If they start to breed, I will move them to another tank reserve for them only.

I'm trying to have as many fish as possible and I try not to let them breed as it will require more work from me.

Just to enjoy the fish without any hassle from having too much work.
 

HengLee

Member
The picture above are some of my fish.
The Demasoni was there only for temporarily as she belongs to the African continent which requires different water condition and she is too aggresive for South American fish.
 

Fikret Celik

Member
5 Year Member
A perfect tank. Congratulations. I want to warn you in a certain way. But does Electiric Blue Jack Demsey and Malawi cichlids create a problem for your elegant South American dwarves? You may experience difficulties due to both the water values and the sizes of these fish. Have a nice day...
 

HengLee

Member
Thanks Fikret.

The Electric Blue Jack Dempsey and the Malawi Demasoni were there just temporarily. Just for temporarily viewing pleasure with different colours combination of fish.

Btw, I'd moved them to my African cichlids tank as they are more aggressive than the South American cichlids.

I may separate the Electric Blue Dempsey from the African Cichlid when she gets bigger or if the African cichlids get more aggressive. The African cichlids are cheap over here. They cost only $1 each.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
The Electric Blue Jack Dempsey and the Malawi Demasoni were there just temporarily. Just for temporarily viewing pleasure with different colours combination of fish.

Btw, I'd moved them to my African cichlids tank as they are more aggressive than the South American cichlids.

I may separate the Electric Blue Dempsey from the African Cichlid when she gets bigger or if the African cichlids get more aggressive. The African cichlids are cheap over here. They cost only $1 each.
Anyway, the life span of the fish is not really a concern as I don't think I want to keep the same fish for too long.

I'll get bored with the same fish. Haha.

I guess I will change my fish at some point of time.

I have 3 fish tanks with almost 30+ species but I still get bored after some time...
By the way, I've lost interest with Corydoras and nowadays I keep Synodontis Petricola(from Africa - but still ok), Yoyo and Bohtia Loach with the Apisto. These 3 species are more beautiful and more interesting/active to watch as compare to Corydoras.
I bought them when they were still small and they look very beautiful and cute. Since they are schooling fish, you may need to have at least 3-4 of them.
The first thing is that none of the fish you mention are acceptable tank mates for Apistogramma.

I've thought about the next bit really carefully before I posted it, but this is the most charitable that I can be.

My advice to you would be the same as Fikret's, I would advice you that you have a duty of care for your fish, they are sentient, living beings and personally I find that your attitude towards their welfare is wholly unacceptable.

Yours Darrel
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
Just to summarize it for Dan his tank

Only keep 1 pair of Apisto
Don't mix it with other dwarf cichlids, especially not from other continents
Don't put any other territorial fish in it
Go for a schooling fish that fits your waterparameters

These short rules hold for a COMMUNITY tank

if you want a breeding tank

Only keep the Apistogramma in there
if you really want to add a dither fish, than go for the nannostomus eques or the nannostomus marginatus, these won't eat the eggs. Warning note: Apistogramma's are highly agressive during breeding, dither fish can be killed if there are not enough hiding places
 

Fikret Celik

Member
5 Year Member
This dither fish topic is a bit different. Dither fish is generally assessed on this platform at the Tetra type. I have both Tetras and Guppies. Guppy, seem to me to be more trouble-free. Apistos are more insensitive to these species. It does not hurt them either. However, I have witnessed a few time Apistos killing the Tetra species.

But this is my experience. I do not know the results of other experiences.

Is there anything wrong with the point of looking at Apistos with Guppy, Molly, etc.? Do you have any warnings at this point?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Other than most apistos are softwater fish and guppies prefer it a it harder - and with some salt - they should be ok.
 

Fikret Celik

Member
5 Year Member
Thank you, sir. I knew that because the Guppies were of Central American origin, they loved some hard water. But I just learned a little salt water. This is probably due to the fact that the Guppies live in the delta. It is possible that the Guppies are in a difficult situation in the water values of Apistos. I will evaluate this again...
 
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