• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Apistos Cross Breeding?

ari

New Member
Messages
7
I read somewhere online that Apistos can and will cross breed. Does anyone have any info on this? Are the offspring sexually viable or sterile?

Doe anyone have pics?
 

Bilbo

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
235
Location
Bulls. New Zealand
Apistogramma is a large genus containing hundreds of species in many species groups. Some possibly cross can but most cannot.

We have a few apisto's that are probably crosses like the Apistogramma Sp. "Steel Blue" and I think there was another (possibly bitaeniata / agassizii) cross a few years ago called Apistogramma sp. "Orangeflossen" but neither of these are known to be overly attractive or desirable.

So the main question is why do you want to cross them? Each one is unique and beautiful in its own right.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Bilbo is right. Some other examples include crosses that Dr. Uwe Römer attempted when studying the relationships of some of the nijsseni-group species. If you can find a copy of his description of A. baenschi, it has photos of these crosses. They are some really ugly, deformed fish. A similar problem occurred with the original imports of A. sp. Tefé, which were crossed with A. agassizii from the Rio Tefé without knowing. These fish showed deformed scale rows and fins, produced small numbers of weak fry that were infertile. Not all crosses are as bad as these, however. Many of the domestically produced fish presently sold as "A. sp. Algodon" are inadvertent crosses between closely related species belonging to the cruzi/Pebas subcomplexes of the eunotus-complex. In the 80s, specimens of A. macmasteri were believed to have been crossed with specimens of other macmasteri-complex species to produce the spectacularly colorful "A. viejita" sold in the hobby. There is a good chance that the present commercially bred "A. viejita" have some of the same hybrid blood lines. The same is true for the colorful strains of A. hongsloi. They appear to be crosses between several different species/forms of the hongsloi-complex. Many of the colorful strains of A. agassizii are actually crosses between multiple species/forms belonging to the A. agassizii superspecies. So, you see, there is nothing really wrong with crossing species for specific purposes. What is wrong is selling such hybrids as a specific species. If you don't want accidental crosses, then only keep apistos with different body shapes together. These are not likely to cross breed.
 

Melanochromis

Member
Messages
249
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
If you don't want accidental crosses, then only keep apistos with different body shapes together. These are not likely to cross breed.

Is it possible for apistos of different body shapes to breed with each other? For examples, those from different species groups?
I'm just curious to know if there have been cases of unexpected hybrids.
 

ari

New Member
Messages
7
I'm not looking to make my Agassaizi and Cockatoos cross breed. They're just in the same tank... that's all :)
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Species from different species-group are very unlikely to cross. Any fry that hatch are not likely to survive to adulthood and more than likely to be sterile. I wouldn't worry about crossing the 2 species. A bigger problem would be separating juveniles of the 2 species, if both were together in the same aquarium.
 

Melanochromis

Member
Messages
249
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
i tried to. the males cannot tell the deference, but the female can.

Interesting. That's what I found too when I kept a male Jurua (Cruzeiro) and a couple of female cacatuoides in the same tank.

The Jurua tried hard to court the cacatuoides into a flower pot but none of them would respond positively. Instead, 2 of the cacatuoides females paired up with each other and laid eggs on the side glass of the tank!! Even more interesting that the eggs didn't last long because the angry male Jurua devoured them quickly in about 5 minutes. I watched the whole drama and was quite entertained. LOL
 

lexi

Member
Messages
40
Location
Oregon, USA
Bilbo is right. Some other examples include crosses that Dr. Uwe Römer attempted when studying the relationships of some of the nijsseni-group species. If you can find a copy of his description of A. baenschi, it has photos of these crosses. They are some really ugly, deformed fish. A similar problem occurred with the original imports of A. sp. Tefé, which were crossed with A. agassizii from the Rio Tefé without knowing. These fish showed deformed scale rows and fins, produced small numbers of weak fry that were infertile. Not all crosses are as bad as these, however. Many of the domestically produced fish presently sold as "A. sp. Algodon" are inadvertent crosses between closely related species belonging to the cruzi/Pebas subcomplexes of the eunotus-complex. In the 80s, specimens of A. macmasteri were believed to have been crossed with specimens of other macmasteri-complex species to produce the spectacularly colorful "A. viejita" sold in the hobby. There is a good chance that the present commercially bred "A. viejita" have some of the same hybrid blood lines. The same is true for the colorful strains of A. hongsloi. They appear to be crosses between several different species/forms of the hongsloi-complex. Many of the colorful strains of A. agassizii are actually crosses between multiple species/forms belonging to the A. agassizii superspecies. So, you see, there is nothing really wrong with crossing species for specific purposes. What is wrong is selling such hybrids as a specific species. If you don't want accidental crosses, then only keep apistos with different body shapes together. These are not likely to cross breed.

Do you have any links or info sources for figuring out which species belong to which group/complex? Thanks!
 

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
275
I believe that to be correct, cacatuoides and macmasteri will not hybridize. Would they tolerate each other....maybe.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,915
Messages
116,200
Members
13,027
Latest member
tonc61

Latest profile posts

Josh wrote on anewbie's profile.
Testing
EDO
Longtime fish enthusiast for over 70years......keen on Apistos now. How do I post videos?
Looking for some help with fighting electric blue rams :(
Partial updated Peruvian list have more than this. Please PM FOR ANY QUESTIONS so hard to post with all the ads poping up every 2 seconds….
Top