Apistogramma viejita from LFS?

[_bsafarijoe]

Hi guys! My name is Berg, I’m a studying ichthyologist from Colorado (most of my work is with freshwater gobies in the genus Stiphodon). I have found myself stumped so I made an account and want a second opinion. Yesterday I sold my LFS some plants and my friend there gave me a pair of (supposedly) Apistogramma viejita instead of cash! I have little experience with dwarf cichlids (I had kribs once but I was not successful in breeding them) but I have good experience with Central American cichlids as well as Africans in the past so I thought why not. I was so excited and almost skipped out the door! But after doing some research I wasn’t so convinced on the species. I don’t blame my LFS, wholesalers rarely get it right, but I’d love to find out what they are. They are both gorgeous and the male is already dancing and has picked a cave! Attached are the best photos I could get of both of em, what do you think they are?

 

[Aquaticloch]

Welcome to the site! You have some very nice fish, but they definitely are not viejita but a beautiful apisto pair nonetheless. A better photo of the male may help in identifying them.

 

[_bsafarijoe]

Welcome to the site! You have some very nice fish, but they definitely are not viejita but a beautiful apisto pair nonetheless. A better photo of the male may help in identifying them.

Better? Thank you so much for your reply!

 

[Ben Rhau]

They look like cacatuoides to me.

 

[MacZ]

I agree, a wild colour form A. cacatuoides or at least same subgroup.

 

[_bsafarijoe]

They look like cacatuoides to me.

Alright cool! I’m assuming these are pretty common.

 

[_bsafarijoe]

I agree, a wild colour form A. cacatuoides or at least same subgroup.

Ooof that’s a big jump

 

[Ben Rhau]

Yes, this is the most popular Apistogramma species, and relatively easy to keep and breed. The wild forms are less common in the hobby, but the most beautiful, in my opinion.

 

[MacZ]

Yes, this is the most popular Apistogramma species, and relatively easy to keep and breed. The wild forms are less common in the hobby, but the most beautiful, in my opinion.

Yep. Double reds or other domestic strains you get everywhere and I wouldn't be remotely interested. These fish though... nice.

 

[_bsafarijoe]

Yes, this is the most popular Apistogramma species, and relatively easy to keep and breed. The wild forms are less common in the hobby, but the most beautiful, in my opinion.

Amazing! Should I build a biotope or would it be better to keep them in the community they are in?

 

[_bsafarijoe]

Yep. Double reds or other domestic strains you get everywhere and I wouldn't be remotely interested. These fish though... nice.

I’ve seen those and honestly I think they are ugly. Cool colors but they look sad. Like skinny and I always think something is up with their fins.

 

[_bsafarijoe]

Yes, this is the most popular Apistogramma species, and relatively easy to keep and breed. The wild forms are less common in the hobby, but the most beautiful, in my opinion.

For breeding also, is there something I should be focusing on with the perameters?

 

[Ben Rhau]

Amazing! Should I build a biotope or would it be better to keep them in the community they are in?

For breeding also, is there something I should be focusing on with the perameters?

What is your current tank setup (size, structure, inhabitants) and do you have additional tanks?

 

[_bsafarijoe]

What is your current tank setup (size, structure, inhabitants) and do you have additional tanks?

I have a bad case of MTS the tank they are in is a 10 community planted with Blackline rasboras, two baby alb bn plecos (temporary)

What is your current tank setup (size, structure, inhabitants) and do you have additional tanks?

I have too many tanks… the setup is a 10 planted with 9 blackline rasboras, 5 ember tetras, 2 baby alb BN plecos (temporary cleanup crew that I move around to help with green dust algae.) a good cherry shrimp colony of c grade culls (just because), two ottos (new addition) and a female HMPK betta I bred. No aggression problems and the filtration is a beast but I definitely want to start working more with Apistograma so I think I should start a few biotopes.

 

[Ben Rhau]

You don't have aggression problems because the pair haven't spawned yet. Once they do, they will be much more aggressive and there's no place to go in that tank. A 10 is way too small for all of those together. 10g could work temporarily as a breeding tank for just the pair, but even then you likely want to move the male once you have fry.

To set up your 10g as a breeder, check out <this thread>. You'll also want a growout tank and a potential place to put the male if aggression can't be managed (a divider also works). Much easier to handle in a 15g or 20 long, where you can build more hiding spots.

All of your other inhabitants are threats to the fry except the shrimp (which may end up as food) and the otos. You could possibly get away with all of them together in a much bigger tank, but it won't be peaceful and don't expect any fry to survive.

As far as biotopes go, cacatuoides aren't particularly picky about water parameters. If the tank is properly set up, you won't be able to stop them from breeding. Whether you want to pick only sympatric livestock and plants is an aesthetic decision that's totally up to you. Also, the distribution of this species is pretty widespread.

Good luck, and be sure to search the site. There's a lot of threads about breeding cacs here. Welcome to this part of the hobby!

 

[_bsafarijoe]

You don't have aggression problems because the pair haven't spawned yet. Once they do, they will be much more aggressive and there's no place to go in that tank. A 10 is way too small for all of those together. 10g could work temporarily as a breeding tank for just the pair, but even then you likely want to move the male once you have fry.

To set up your 10g as a breeder, check out <this thread>. You'll also want a growout tank and a potential place to put the male if aggression can't be managed (a divider also works). Much easier to handle in a 15g or 20 long, where you can build more hiding spots.

All of your other inhabitants are threats to the fry except the shrimp (which may end up as food) and the otos. You could possibly get away with all of them together in a much bigger tank, but it won't be peaceful and don't expect any fry to survive.

As far as biotopes go, cacatuoides aren't particularly picky about water parameters. If the tank is properly set up, you won't be able to stop them from breeding. Whether you want to pick only sympatric livestock and plants is an aesthetic decision that's totally up to you. Also, the distribution of this species is pretty widespread.

Good luck, and be sure to search the site. There's a lot of threads about breeding cacs here. Welcome to this part of the hobby!

Thank you man! I have a 20 tall that I can use and I’ll maybe set that up this weekend! I definitely love the idea of biotope and I have good access to botanicals (My friend owns Betta Botanicals, an awesome company if you haven’t checked em out) so maybe I’ll do a BSA with undisturbed substrate. What are your stocking recommendations?

 

[Ben Rhau]

For apistos, the footprint is more relevant than the height, so a 20 tall is effectively the same as a 15. If you want to breed in it, I would probably put the pair, 2 or 3 pencil fish, and some inverts (and maybe the otos if there's anything for them to eat). Once you get fry, you won't want a bunch of other fish in that tank.

What's a BSA?

 

[_bsafarijoe]

For apistos, the footprint is more relevant than the height, so a 20 tall is effectively the same as a 15. If you want to breed in it, I would probably put the pair, 2 or 3 pencil fish, and some inverts (and maybe the otos if there's anything for them to eat). Once you get fry, you won't want a bunch of other fish in that tank.

What's a BSA?

Botanical style aquarium

 

[MacZ]

Botanical style aquarium

Scott Fellman always says on the Tint that people use this term. But I haven't met anyone who uses the term. Until now.

We still use "biotope tank" here on the forum.

 

[Ben Rhau]

I guess it’s more specific than “biotope” but at any rate it looks good!