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Apistogramma norberti

fart

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
144
Location
Norway, Trondheim
Before buying wild caught Apistogramma norberti I read online and in books that this was a very shy apisto, so i arranged the thank with lots of hideouts and floating plants so it would feel safe.

But to my surprise it was not shy at all and almost never hides in all the nice hiding spots i arranged for them.
The even come up to the water surface when the sense its feeding time :)

apnorfood_zpsaac55d6c.jpg
 

ErtyJr

Active Member
Messages
245
Location
Philadelphia, PA
All apistos are less shy when they know there is somewhere near by in which to hide. Your decor must suit them well.
Just wanted to add in that this holds true for nearly all "shy" fish.

If they know they can easily escape predation, than why sulk in a corner all day?

You obviously gave him a very comfy environment and that's his way of saying thanks.
 

fart

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
144
Location
Norway, Trondheim
Thank guys, good to know that they feel safe.

Does anyone know why wild caught A. norberti males always loses their red markings around their lips, aftear a while in captivity?

anor_zps9fd859cb.jpg
 

Mike Wise

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5 Year Member
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11,174
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Nnorberti.jpg

Do you mean your A. norberti don't look like this??

This is TomC's photo, but it is my hand.;) We collected this male at a new location, near Tamshiyacu. To answer your question: #1 - FOOD, mostly live and highly varied; #2 WATER, super clean, constant flow/change and perfect conditions for the species.
 

fart

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
144
Location
Norway, Trondheim
Yes, that's what I mean :) and Thanks for the answers.

It was Tom C that told me they lost the red around the lips, he did not mention why.
Real nice photo of the A. norberti

What do you mean by "constant flow/change" is it regarding the filters flow?

Hard to get live food here now, but i try to vary the frozen food.

With regards
RHD
 

ErtyJr

Active Member
Messages
245
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Yes, that's what I mean :) and Thanks for the answers.

It was Tom C that told me they lost the red around the lips, he did not mention why.
Real nice photo of the A. norberti

What do you mean by "constant flow/change" is it regarding the filters flow?

Hard to get live food here now, but i try to vary the frozen food.

With regards
RHD

Mike can obviously better explain but I believe what he meant by constant flow/change was to either have a drip system of RO water setup for this fish or do very constant water changes to keep water quality as tip top as possible as this species is very demanding of good quality water and far more demanding than some of the more forgiving species such as cacatuoides who can be found in higher ph, and even moderately alkaline water, with a higher tds.

Edit- for the record though my cacatuoides still get spoiled with this same treatment as I feel just because a fish is more forgiving of conditions does not mean they should be neglected =D
 

dw1305

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5 Year Member
Messages
2,744
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
I'm a great believer in high quality water as well, but I think the loss of red colour probably relates to differences in diet, and particularly in <"carotenoid content">.

The carotenoid pigments originate in the chloroplasts of cyanobacteria and "plants", but the normal dietary source is often crustaceans. "Second hand" carotenoids make salmon flesh, and flamingos, pink etc.

I'd assume that the fish are eating crustaceans (Macrobrachium shrimps? I noticed them on <"TomC's 2011 travelogue">) that are high in carotenoid pigments, and these pigments are enhancing the colour of the fish in the wild.
resizeimage.aspx


An experiment would be to feed Daphnia with powered paprika (rich in carotenoids and a suitably sized particle) and then feed them to the fish. If it is carotenoid induced pigmentation then the red lips should re-appear.

BBS and Cyclops will naturally contain carotenoids, but I don't know how much.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:

Linus_Cello

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
276
Location
Washington DC
Hi all,
I'm a great believer in high quality water as well, but I think the loss of red colour probably relates to differences in diet, and particularly in <"carotenoid content">.

An experiment would be to feed Daphnia with powered paprika (rich in carotenoids and a suitably sized particle) and then feed them to the fish. If it is carotenoid induced pigmentation then the red lips should re-appear.

BBS and Cyclops will naturally contain carotenoids, but I don't know how much.

cheers Darrel

Or maybe red cherry shrimp?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,174
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Most apistos, including the one in the photo, come from slow flowing jungle streams. The water is continually flowing so there is little build-up of organic waste products. Unless you have a continuous-flow water change system, there is little in the way to duplicate stream flow. Fortunately aquarium filtration methods are adequate for most fish - not perfect, but definitely adequate. I do agree that food is the most important part of the equation.
 

ErtyJr

Active Member
Messages
245
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Or maybe red cherry shrimp?

Interesting, I never considered it but I have 2 male cacatuoides currently. The youngest was a glowing orange color, very bright. Than one day he began to eat my cheery shrimp population, which he had never done before. It was fine by me as I put them there to be eaten anyways. At any rate he is now the brightest red fish I own. This is by no means conclusive evidence though, as when he was still a fry he was actually a very obvious yellow, than a very bright orange, and now a bright red. Could just be him maturing, but he has surpassed his father in red pigmentation by a long shot, and his father does not eat my cherry shrimp.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,744
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Or maybe red cherry shrimp?
I fed mine Cherry shrimps for a while, but I didn't notice any particular enhancement in the fishes colour.

This was fine for about 18 months, but eventually I had a Cherry Shrimp population crash, and when I netted the remains out of their breeding tank I found that I didn't have any females (or juveniles) left.

I think the reason for this was that I used to feed the shrimps by taking a big wodge of moss out of the shrimp tank, and putting it in the Apistogramma tank. A week later I took the moss out of the cichlid tank, and replaced it with another wodge from the shrimp tank etc.

I think the problem was that over time I selected for the more sedentary female shrimps, which remained in the moss where the spirulina flakes etc had snagged, and left the males which were much more active.

cheers Darrel
 

fart

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
144
Location
Norway, Trondheim
Thank you all guys, for lots of interesting information.

In my current setup, i can not setup a automatic water change system. So has to still rely on normal water changes.

dw1305, regarding the food you mention among other "crustaceans (Macrobrachium shrimps? I noticed them on <"TomC's 2011 travelogue">) "
it is not easy to replicate their diet and feed them what they naturally eat, but what do you think of Mysis relicta as a source for red color (eaten by trout) ?
I don not have live Mysis at hand but I can get freeze-dried mysis. And Just found out that mysis set out in regulated lakes (in my area) as food for trout.
So it could be possible to get live ones for food.

With regards
RHD
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,744
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
dw1305, regarding the food you mention among other "crustaceans (Macrobrachium shrimps? I noticed them on <"TomC's 2011 travelogue">) "
it is not easy to replicate their diet and feed them what they naturally eat, but what do you think of Mysis relicta as a source for red color (eaten by trout) ?
So it could be possible to get live ones for food.
I think Mysis shrimp are rich in carotenoids, live ones would be great, but I think frozen should also do.

cheers Darrel
 

fart

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
144
Location
Norway, Trondheim
Thank you for the answer dw1305.
Will try to catch some live mysis when the ice melts from the lake.

With regards
RHD
 

Bart Hazes

Active Member
Messages
228
Getting back to the "loss of red lip colour in captivity" remark. How long does it normally take for the red colour to fade. I now have mine for 6 weeks but the lips are still nice red. They are in a tank without filter or circulation pump. Just tons of (floating) plants.

AnorbertiMaleRedLips.jpg


One pair spawned a month ago and the fry have been swimming around the community tank for 3 weeks now. I added 2 females last week and one new female just started preparing a coconut for spawning and is trying hard to get the attention of the male. For the first pair it took the female a full 24 hours of vigorous flanking and tail swapping before the male capitulated. She use a pile of sand to close the entrance to the coconut cave so only she could still get in. It appears the new female is doing the same. Going in and out and often spitting a mouth full of sand on a growing pile in the cave opening.

AnorbertiFemaleSpittingSand.jpg
 

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