Apistogramma ID

[yob17]

Hi,

I have had this fish as Apistogramma regani from Caparari, but I don't think that it's the true regani !
So what is this species ? :biggrin:

 

[Mike Wise]

Regan-group species are hard to identify from only a few photos. I can say that the fish is not A. regani. The body is too deep, caudal fin has different markings, the vertical bars are not as distinct as on A. regani, the caudal spot is different, and no true A. regani has been found that has red markings on the head.

I could not find a river or town with the name "Caparari" (There probably is, but I couldn't find it. Caparari is a name used in Brazil for the Tiger Shovelnose catfish, Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum. It might help to have photos of the male & female that show the dark fright markings. It would help if you can answer any of the questions:

Are these wild or tank bred fish?
If wild, what other fish arrived with the apistos?
What is the size of the male; female?
Do the fish ever show abdominal stripes?

Based on what I can see on the photos and some educated guesses, my best guess for now is that it is the holotype form of A. geisleri (A58). More photos/information might indicate a different species.

 

[yob17]

Thank you for your help !

For the questions :


-Wild fish from Brazil.
-But it'is not a mix box of Apistogramma, the seller has asked this species.
-The size for the male 7cm and female 4cm.
-The fish ever show abdominal stripes.

For the maintenance in tank, this Apistogramma spawn in neautral (pH between 6,5-7,2) and soft water (80µS/cm).

The body is high enough. The first and second membranes of dorsal fin are black. Ventral and dorsal fins are longer than caudal fin.


I would try to do photos, in order to see the dark fright markings

 

[Microman]

Hi Kevin/Mike,
Weve discussed these fish here before, They came into the UK via France.
I personally dont think they are a Brazilian species...
Some reasonable ID pics here from Steve, these are F1 from Wilds ....
http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=7686&highlight=eunotus
Hope this helps...
Mark.

 

[bourdinite]

it's me kévin Mark

yob is yoann

 

[Mike Wise]

A. geisleri would hae abdominal stripes. Since your fish don't have these stripes, it is not A. geisleri. Does your male show any pattern in the caudal fin? I think that I see some on your males. I don't think your fish are the same as the other fish, but I could be wrong. I need more photos to be certain!

 

[Microman]

Hi Kevin
Yes i knew it was you....Hope you are well and fish from UK doing well also.
Mike
The eunotus type fish in Steves pictures are the F1 offspring from the fish in the pics below but these pics are not good for ID purposes....
These are fish from France that are supplied as A regani"Caparari". Kevins fish will no doubt be from the same import as he knows the supplier very well indeed.
The males seem to take a very active role in the broodcare and whilst doing so take on a very strange yellowish female like colouration. Yes you can indeed see very slight pattern towards the rear of the caudal.
Mark...

 

[Mike Wise]

I have never seen caudal fin bands only on the posterior endYob17's fish shows some regani-complex features, but the splits in the vertical bars (visible on Steve's fish) is not one of them. Are we absolutely certain that we are looking at the same species? If we are, then it appears to have characteristics of both eunotus- and regani-complex species. Are any of these fish truly wild??? Could it be a domestic cross between A. cf. eunotus & A. sp. Masken??? I have no idea, but I am suspicious.

 

[Microman]

Getting the French guys muddled up here. Sorry chaps...
Yoann has confirmed by pm that the fish are from the same source/import in France but is still possible that we have different fish.
As far as i know Mike these are wild fish but from where i dont know....
Be nice if Yoann could get fright colouration pics of his fish, all would be revealed then....
Mark...

 

[94Otsipa]

Hello everybody,
This ID interested me particularly because I have some fish of this colony.
On the first snaps of Yob17, we can see fish with their guard color.

I do not think it is a hybrid because the following generations remain consistent.
Here you can see young descendants from wild (theoretically).

 

[Mike Wise]

I don't know what to say. Mark's (Microman) fish definitely show characteristics of the eunotus-subcomplex: split posterior vertical bar, orange patch at the base of the pectoral fin, and a tail with no pattern. Yoann's (yob17) fish show characteristics of the cruzi-subcomplex (& possibly the regani-complex): no split vertical bars, no orange patch, abdominal stripes, and a series of stripes in the tail. The photos 94Otsipa sent are a mix of the two groups of fish above: no split bars, abdominal stripes, no caudal fin pattern (that I can see), and no orange patch at the base of the pectoral fin. I think that each of you will have to send specimens to me so I can see them for myself!

 

[94Otsipa]

To maintain the confusion, here we can see the same fish with their fry.

Male



Femal





Perhaps, this is a new species, the links between both subcomplex. :biggrin: