Apistogramma Breeding Racks

[RockyProndoa]

Hello all - I just discovered this website/forum after having been in the hobby for 30+ years...not sure how I missed it, but I sure am glad I found it!

I'm rather new to the Apisto world, so I'm expecting a lot of trial and error, but I'm also banking on eliminating as much as I can through my own experiences and the experience of others, hence my post here. I've been keeping fish for 30+ years, and currently have a 200g saltwater reef system, a 75g high-tech planted tank, and a 40g rainbowfish tank. Much like any other hobby, I always want more, so on to my next adventure below.

I'm currently in the planning stages of setting up a rack of aquariums specifically for breeding Apistos. My initial thought is 4 rows of 4 tanks each (16 total) - each tank being a 20L. To make water changes easier, each tank will be drilled through the end/back for a drain, and all of the individual tank drains will tie into a central drain that will flow into the floor drain in my basement. My city water pH runs about 7.5, so I plan to refill the tanks with simple tap water (though I do have an RODI system for my saltwater reef that would be at my disposal if reconstituting top-off water would be a better option?). Each tank will utilize a sponge filter with a single linear piston air pump. Additionally, each tank will have a small heater (as my basement typically runs around 66-70F depending on season). Lastly, I will DIY sliding glass lid tops for each tank.

As for the rack itself, I plan to use standard 2x6s for the verticals with dado cuts in them for the horizontal 2x4 shelf and brace supports.

Now for the unknowns:

1.) Lighting - what would be an efficient/economical light source for each tank?
2.) Substrate - leaf litter? gravel? bare-bottom?
3.) Nutrition - foods, DIY cultures, etc?

As stated above - I'm new to all of this and mostly gathering ideas from my own personal experiences and from what I have gathered on various forums. I'm also new to Apistos - so please, any information, advice and/or thoughts that you may have would help.

Perhaps 20L are too big? small?
10G tanks for grow-out tanks in lieu of the 20L?

I'm sure I'll have my questions as we go, but for now this should be a good start. I appreciate the help!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Lighting - what would be an efficient/economical light source for each tank?

If you aren't worried about aesthetics, I'd probably go for LED floodlights now. I'm a floating plant fan, so I can use these as a "net curtain" if the light is too bright.

Substrate - leaf litter? gravel? bare-bottom?

<"Sand and structural leaf litter">, also have a look at <"@Tom C's web site">, if you haven't already seen it?

3.) Nutrition - foods, DIY cultures, etc?

<"I mainly feed live food">, and a lot of people will feed BBS, frozen food and <"some pellets">. I think a few of us have found that <"Fluval Bugbites"> (<"Black Soldier-fly based">) are accepted by Apistogramma with more enthusiasm than most dried food.

cheers Darrel

 

[MacZ]

My city water pH runs about 7.5, so I plan to refill the tanks with simple tap water (though I do have an RODI system for my saltwater reef that would be at my disposal if reconstituting top-off water would be a better option?). Each tank will utilize a sponge filter with a single linear piston air pump. Additionally, each tank will have a small heater (as my basement typically runs around 66-70F depending on season). Lastly, I will DIY sliding glass lid tops for each tank.

Depending on the species of Apistogramma (Blackwater), you might want to use RO water. I'm not sure if the DI-Stage is necessary though.

Now for the unknowns:

1.) Lighting - what would be an efficient/economical light source for each tank?

Again depending on the species. In Blackwater you can't really have plants, so any light will do, to support floating plants and semi-emersed plants. Clearwater species need more plants, but if you use easy to grow plants, again, the lights are all but important.

2.) Substrate - leaf litter? gravel? bare-bottom?

Fine sand + leaf litter. Period.

3.) Nutrition - foods, DIY cultures, etc?

Live and frozen, DIY cultures for BBS are great. Only dry food many people recommend is Bug Bites.

Perhaps 20L are too big? small?
10G tanks for grow-out tanks in lieu of the 20L?

20g are great for pairs. But not more than a pair, also always have tank space free to remove one part of a pair if the aggression gets out of hand.
Also 20g for growout. A batch can have a hundred fry.

Ha! Darrel beat me to it!

 

[Ben Rhau]

If I were you, I'd decide which species you want breed before completely scaling up. 20g tanks are great for pairs and some trios, but not always necessary if the species works with 10 or 15g. Also, depending on what size is considered saleable, you may find it more convenient to have tanks larger than 20g for growout after a certain stage. If you need to build it out first, the simplest thing would be to split it up between 15g and 20g tanks. But you could optimize the space better if you knew what you needed first.

 

[Ben Rhau]

Also, as MacZ says, not all species will breed at pH 7.5, though most of the domestic strains will. For breeding at all, perhaps more important than the pH is the conductivity of your water. Generally speaking, lower conductivity will give you more options, though again the line-bred strains are often adapted to moderately hard water. Another reason to know what you're breeding first.

Once you get them breeding, the pH and temperature are thought to influence the male/female ratio of the offspring.

 

[RockyProndoa]

If I were you, I'd decide which species you want breed before completely scaling up. 20g tanks are great for pairs and some trios, but not always necessary if the species works with 10 or 15g. Also, depending on what size is considered saleable, you may find it more convenient to have tanks larger than 20g for growout after a certain stage. If you need to build it out first, the simplest thing would be to split it up between 15g and 20g tanks. But you could optimize the space better if you knew what you needed first.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of. I'll definitely save some room for a few larger tanks - thanks!

 

[yukondog]

Welcome to the sight. Do you plan on keeping the water at PH 7.5, if so that limits you on the types of apisto's also with all the fry you wind up with do they have a place to go?
It's real easy to overload your local pet shops [I'm there now].

 

[RockyProndoa]

<"Sand and structural leaf litter">, also have a look at <"@Tom C's web site">, if you haven't already seen it?

I have not - but wow is that helpful. Much appreciated.

Again depending on the species. In Blackwater you can't really have plants, so any light will do, to support floating plants and semi-emersed plants. Clearwater species need more plants, but if you use easy to grow plants, again, the lights are all but important.

Noted. I wasn't sure how 'full-on' biotope folks went with their breeding tanks; often times less is more with other species, but it sounds like with these guys we want to get pretty close?

Live and frozen, DIY cultures for BBS are great. Only dry food many people recommend is Bug Bites.

I plan to keep a BBS culture on-hand, and I already feed Bug Bites to my community tanks, so I think I've at least got a good start with this, thanks for the input.

Again - I appreciate the quick and informative responses by all. This hobby wouldn't be what it is without people taking the time to explain, probably many times over again to those questions that have been asked (on multiple occasions, I'm sure). For my first post and first visit, I'm quite impressed.

 

[MacZ]

Noted. I wasn't sure how 'full-on' biotope folks went with their breeding tanks; often times less is more with other species, but it sounds like with these guys we want to get pretty close?

Not everybody here is full-on biotope enthusiast. Actually, since I'm here I find there are also equal amounts of collectors, casual keepers and breeders. I am mostly in it for the biotopes, neither for breeding or collecting and I'm far past casual. I bred Rift Lake cichlids for about a decade, breeding was a whole lot easier with them and I don't want to get into all of that again. My fish are allowed to spawn if I keep them in pairs, but the fry don't make it far thanks to the tetras I keep with them.
Due to size limitations in my appartment (20 gallons per tank, planning on a second, and 3 is the limit would possibly be able to fit in here.) I might end that practice and switch to keeping singular specimens. That's more appropriate in smaller spaces.

I plan to keep a BBS culture on-hand, and I already feed Bug Bites to my community tanks, so I think I've at least got a good start with this, thanks for the input.

You're welcome!

Again - I appreciate the quick and informative responses by all. This hobby wouldn't be what it is without people taking the time to explain, probably many times over again to those questions that have been asked (on multiple occasions, I'm sure). For my first post and first visit, I'm quite impressed.

Oh, heck yes! It can get repetitive. I don't have that here, but in other fishkeeping forums I know that very well.
And thanks.

 

[RockyProndoa]

Welcome to the sight. Do you plan on keeping the water at PH 7.5, if so that limits you on the types of apisto's also with all the fry you wind up with do they have a place to go?
It's real easy to overload your local pet shops [I'm there now].

Thank you.

No, I don't plan to keep it at 7.5, I plan to lower it to at least 7.0 or below through the use of RO and leaf litter/driftwood.

The fry were a legitimate concern of mine as well - and as such, I may start out small and scale as necessary. I have quite a few LFS in my area, so I planned to start there as well as several local aquarium clubs. Eventually, at least I imagine, the market will become saturated and I may be forced to turn to online sales (though I'm not sure I want to invest that kind of time/resources).

 

[MacZ]

No, I don't plan to keep it at 7.5, I plan to lower it to at least 7.0 or below through the use of RO and leaf litter/driftwood.

Although as Ben Rhau explained TDS is more important, the average pH that's never really wrong is between 6 and 6.5. So, RO and leaf litter are definitely going to be a given.

The fry were a legitimate concern of mine as well - and as such, I may start out small and scale as necessary. I have quite a few LFS in my area, so I planned to start there as well as several local aquarium clubs. Eventually, at least I imagine, the market will become saturated and I may be forced to turn to online sales (though I'm not sure I want to invest that kind of time/resources).

When I kept Malawis and Tanganyikans I had the habit of getting wild caught fish, getting them to breed and selling them after the first or second successfully raised batch to people that bred commercially. While with some it was putting them in the tank and 2 weeks later I had fry, some were really hard to get there and that was always the most interesting part.
Giving them away to professional breeders has a positive side-effect: That way the captive population can become quite sizeable and that way the wild populations get less strain through overharvesting.
I'm quite proud that the descendants of some of my fish from over 20 years ago still swim in aquaria all over. At least in my country and some neighbouring ones in Europe.