Apistogramma borelli - Pair doesn't like each other

[Yeronimo]

Hello,

I have a pair of Apistogramma borelli in my 60x28x20 cm Walstad tank together with 2 Endler Guppys. In the first days they lived together in harmony and started to courtship (is this the correct word?). But from one day to another the female starts to escape, first slow backwards, then fast forward, when the male comes near to her and he is following / chasing her for a very short time. This happens for about 4-5 weeks now and it doesn't seem to change. Both are eating well and apart from that in a good mood. Luckily she has enough possibilities to hide in the tank.

I have middlehard water, pH of about 7,2 and a water temperature of about 18 - 22 °C. The fish get all kind of food (dry, frost, living) and are healthy.

So my question to you: Whats happening there and what can I do? Or do this couple don't like each other and I have to give them away!? Can this be an unchangeable thing for Apistogrammas?

Thanks for you help!

Best
Gerd

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Welcome, that is a nice tank. I particularly like your emergent Ceratopteris. I'm a great fan of Diana Walstad's <"aerial advantage">. I don't know how strictly you adhere to the original Walstad idea, but if you don't do change any water? I'd start, it helps with tank maintenance and water quality, and Diana herself started making use <"of water movement and water changes"> after she had written <"Ecology of the Planted Aquarium">.

Whats happening there and what can I do?

The female isn't ready to spawn, so the male will try and drive her out of his territory, and then wait for another receptive female to appear. He doesn't know that there isn't another female going going to come along. They aren't pair forming, in the way that other cichlids might be.

They are quite calm fish so I wouldn't worry too much as she can escape and is healthy. You may have to raise the water temperature a bit to get them to spawn and last I'd be little concerned for your high grade shrimps, they are frequently on the menu for Apistogramma.

cheers Darrel

 

[Yeronimo]

Hi all,
Welcome, that is a nice tank. I particularly like your emergent Ceratopteris. I'm a great fan of Diana Walstad's <"aerial advantage">. I don't know how strictly you adhere to the original Walstad idea, but if you don't do change any water? I'd start, it helps with tank maintenance and water quality, and Diana herself started making use <"of water movement and water changes"> after she had written <"Ecology of the Planted Aquarium">. The female isn't ready to spawn, so the male will try and drive her out of his territory, and then wait for another receptive female to appear. He doesn't know that there isn't another female going going to come along. They aren't pair forming, in the way that other cichlids might be.

They are quite calm fish so I wouldn't worry too much as she can escape and is healthy. You may have to raise the water temperature a bit to get them to spawn and last I'd be little concerned for your high grade shrimps, they are frequently on the menu for Apistogramma.

cheers Darrel

Thank you, Darrel. Yes, I adhere to the original Walstad method, but I also do 30% water changes every 4 weeks. I don't know if this is enough, but till now it works. In a "normal" tank I do water changes every 1 to 2 weeks and change about 50% of the water. There I have the feeling that this is more important for the fish health.

What you discribe about the Borellis is exactly what I thought about their behaviour. So, you don't think that they "don't like" each other, instead it seems to be the female who is not ready to spawn!? I can live with that. The female seems not to care about it and is okay with their withdrawn position in the darker parts of the tank.
Are Borellis no typical cichlids that live in pairs? Some people told me so. Which Apistogrammas live like that instead?

I know that cichlids and perches love shrimps. Till now there was no problem with that and don't worry, they are not high grade . And if they eat the frys they have a good meal .

What do you think, which temperature would be good for the Apistogrammas? The problem is that I have not much place for a heater and the one I tested earlier didn't work.

Thanks!
Gerd

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Which Apistogrammas live like that instead?

Apistogramma nijsseni group, some of the other males are likely to form pairs but are also "opportunistically polygamous".

Usually with cichlids pair size and appearance is a good indication of whether they are polygamous or monogamous. Monogamous cichlids tend to have male and female relatively similar in size and appearance.

What do you think, which temperature would be good for the Apistogrammas? The problem is that I have not much place for a heater and the one I tested earlier didn't work.

Probably 24 - 26oC, but they are a cold tolerant species. My guess that a cooler winter is probably quite good for them.

cheers Darrel

 

[Yeronimo]

Hi all, Apistogramma nijsseni group, some of the other males are likely to form pairs but are also "opportunistically polygamous".

Usually with cichlids pair size and appearance is a good indication of whether they are polygamous or monogamous. Monogamous cichlids tend to have male and female relatively similar in size and appearance.Probably 24 - 26oC, but they are a cold tolerant species. My guess that a cooler winter is probably quite good for them.

cheers Darrel

Thank you again, Darrel. I know push the temperature a little bit higher. I guess I try 24°C first.

Do you think that Apistogramma borelliis are better kept in harems or with more females than males?

Best
Gerd

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Do you think that Apistogramma borelliis are better kept in harems

Ideally a male and at least three females, but you need a tank with a bigger enough floor area. Personally I've had better luck with 1:1 male : female than 1:2 male : female, which has never worked for me.

I've also never successfully kept two males in the same tank, unless they were siblings.

cheers Darrel

 

[Samala]

unless they were siblings.

Boy that's interesting. Makes me wonder if males form coalitions in the wild in patrolling/managing their territory and females.

Gerd that is a beautiful tank! Impressive emergent growth. Never seen Ceratopteris grown that way and now very tempted to try.

 

[Yeronimo]

Hi all, Ideally a male and at least three females, but you need a tank with a bigger enough floor area. Personally I've had better luck with 1:1 male : female than 1:2 male : female, which has never worked for me.

I've also never successfully kept two males in the same tank, unless they were siblings.

cheers Darrel

Really interesting. In most literature I have read about A. borelli, the authors speak of 1:1 as the best way to keep them. This opens my eyes. Thank you!

Gerd that is a beautiful tank! Impressive emergent growth. Never seen Ceratopteris grown that way and now very tempted to try.

Thank you, Samala. I didn't expected this immensive emergent growth of the Ceratopteris either, but now I love it . Give it a try, it's great!

 

[Mike Wise]

A. borellii, like most other regani-lineage species, is what I call 'casually polygamous'. If there is more than 1 female and no other males that threaten his territory then a male will breed with several females. If there is only 1 female, and no reasons to protect his territory from other interlopers, I guess they get bored with nothing to do so they bother brooding females. Brooding females do not want a flashy male attracting potential predator to their brood territory.

 

[yukondog]

Have you tried rearranging the tank? I have found using a small mirror placed in the tank for the male helps. But I dont do it for more than a hour and only about three times a week.

 

[Yeronimo]

@dw1305 To raise the temperature was an awesome hint. The water temperature is now at 25 °C and everything changed. Both are much more colored and agile now and the female is swimming through the whole tank without being afraid of him. Now he is swimming towards her, then showing his site to her, she is then doing the same or showing her belly or is nibbling him. I don't know what all this means, are these first courtship signals? Nevertheless it is not important, because I love it to see them like that. They both live together at the moment and it seems harmonic. Thank you so much!

Have you tried rearranging the tank? I have found using a small mirror placed in the tank for the male helps. But I dont do it for more than a hour and only about three times a week.

That sounds like a nice trick. I do know this for Bettas, not for Apistogrammas. Thank you, I will keep this in mind.

 

[yukondog]

first courtship signals

Sounds like it to me, good luck

 

[Yeronimo]

Hello everyone,

just a short update from me: My borellis have finally spawned and since a few days I can see some frys swimming through the tank with their mom. The temperature trick did it. I'm very happy that everything works just fine now. I don't know if any fry will make it in my tank because of the endler guppys in it. But it is nice to see that my pair likes each other.

Thank you again guys for your help!

Gerd

 

[Samala]

Wonderful! Now that they've got it figured out it may be hard to get them to stop. I have a pair that spawns like clockwork, even when I let the temperature drop to 21C recently..

They are a joy to watch.

 

[Yeronimo]

Cool, that is nice to hear. I am a litte bit disappointed at the moment... As expected no fry survived. As I heard this seems to be normal for the first "try"!?
Know I am thinking about the next try. What would you do: Let them breed and let they do it on their own? I am thinking of extracting some frys and put them in a new tank to see them growing.
Or is this an unnecessary step and the adults learn to defend their frys?

I am excited about your answers ☺.

Gerd