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Apistogramma agassizii male health issue

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
Hello,

I have a health issue regarding my male apisto. I haven't seen any noticable issues (eating, swimming, etc. All Seem normal). The main thing I have notice is a small pink thing protruding from the male around the butt area. I am not sure what exactly it could be but maybe a parasite. He has had it for a couple of months with no other noticable health issues.

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There has been no breeding for the past while either. All ammonia, nitrites and nitrates read zero and they have been fed either fluval bug bites or live daphnia. Only fish in the tank are the 3 apistos (1 male and 2 females).

Thank you for any help!
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
Besides the fact the fish has a kind of prolapse and a swelling in the abdomen (the belly is not supposed to be that round), there is nothing to say with certainty. Too many infos missing.
 

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
Besides the fact the fish has a kind of prolapse and a swelling in the abdomen (the belly is not supposed to be that round), there is nothing to say with certainty. Too many infos missing.
Thank you for the info and the quick reply! Sorry about the missing info, what further kinds of information could I give that would help? And if it is a prolapse, how could I help him recover? Thanks again!
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
Sorry about the missing info, what further kinds of information could I give that would help?
Tank size, water parameters: temp, pH, GH, KH (Nitrogen compounds are water quality, not parameters in the actual sense.) maintenance schedule, feeding schedule, and a picture of the tank. Because many health problems are related to the holding conditions.

And if it is a prolapse, how could I help him recover?
Usually nothing. Depends on the reason. Which is what we have to find out first.

And please do nothing proactive besides waterchanges and adding humic substances (aka tannins) until there is an explanation. If it turns out there is no explenation, no certain explanation or an explanation that can't be remedied, the only thing you can do is optimize the keeping conditions.
 

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
Tank size, water parameters: temp, pH, GH, KH (Nitrogen compounds are water quality, not parameters in the actual sense.) maintenance schedule, feeding schedule, and a picture of the tank. Because many health problems are related to the holding conditions.


Usually nothing. Depends on the reason. Which is what we have to find out first.

And please do nothing proactive besides waterchanges and adding humic substances (aka tannins) until there is an explanation. If it turns out there is no explenation, no certain explanation or an explanation that can't be remedied, the only thing you can do is optimize the keeping conditions.

Tank size, water parameters: temp, pH, GH, KH (Nitrogen compounds are water quality, not parameters in the actual sense.) maintenance schedule, feeding schedule, and a picture of the tank. Because many health problems are related to the holding conditions.


Usually nothing. Depends on the reason. Which is what we have to find out first.

And please do nothing proactive besides waterchanges and adding humic substances (aka tannins) until there is an explanation. If it turns out there is no explenation, no certain explanation or an explanation that can't be remedied, the only thing you can do is optimize the keeping conditions.
The tank size is 18 gallons. Temp is at 75-77. pH is 6.5. gh is 1-2. Kh is 0. Water changes is 25% weekly or more often every 2 weeks with RODI. I feed once a day (most often fluval bug bites, but daphnia when available), though sometimes once a week miss one day of feeding. The filter is a dual sponge filter with a 40g air pump (but have a dial that can restrict some airflow. I have had tannins and botanical material in the tank (seed pods, leaves, driftwood, etc.) for over a year and have replenished it a few times. It has alot of plants (epiphytes, rooted, and floating). I have also added some purple nonsulfer bacteria to the tank usually once a week. Lights are on a timer and are probably on for a little too long (probably 10 hours).

Other inhabitants include ramshorn snails that have also live in there for over a year and have gotten fairly large.

I realize that maybe an issue could be either pH swings in water changes due to low kh and I might not be aging the water or might need to remineralize with kh and gh slightly. Don't know if that could be a reason for this health issue. Also possibly poor water circulation with all the plants.

I will attach a photo of the tank
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
I realize that maybe an issue could be either pH swings in water changes due to low kh and I might not be aging the water or might need to remineralize with kh and gh slightly. Don't know if that could be a reason for this health issue. Also possibly poor water circulation with all the plants.
Na, why and how would hardness and pH cause a physical injury? And pH swings are unlikely. You have a lot of humic substances in it, the pH should be buffered in low range.
Raising minerals is also not necessary. The fish don't mind it being as it is. Only the snails may want some more calcium, but this is about the fish.

To be fair, I think we can rule out internal parasites, if the tank is already running over a year and, I assume, the fish are in it about that long, too. If it were any parasites, the fish would have died long ago.
So the other possibility I was thinking about could be the problem: There might be a physical blockage of the intestines. If that is the case there is nothing you can do about it. Let it live out it's life in its great home and enjoy it, while it lasts.

I love the tank, pretty much my style.

Only things I would do differently: 50% WC weekly with 100% RO and stop adding the bacteria.
 

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
Na, why and how would hardness and pH cause a physical injury? And pH swings are unlikely. You have a lot of humic substances in it, the pH should be buffered in low range.
Raising minerals is also not necessary. The fish don't mind it being as it is. Only the snails may want some more calcium, but this is about the fish.

To be fair, I think we can rule out internal parasites, if the tank is already running over a year and, I assume, the fish are in it about that long, too. If it were any parasites, the fish would have died long ago.
So the other possibility I was thinking about could be the problem: There might be a physical blockage of the intestines. If that is the case there is nothing you can do about it. Let it live out it's life in its great home and enjoy it, while it lasts.

I love the tank, pretty much my style.

Only things I would do differently: 50% WC weekly with 100% RO and stop adding the bacteria.
I thought the chances of the tank parameters being the cause as a low chance but was grasping at straws hoping that was the case because then it seemed like something I could physically fix.

I did add some plants I realize a bit ago from another tank I had. I don't think I've seen any issues from the other tank. Or could a parasite come in through a bad batch of daphnia? I apologize if that is a dumb question.

Ive read somewhere on a different forum post on another site that using some Epson salt (1 tbsp per 5 gallons) could help with inflammation and was wondering your thoughts or possible experience with that?

Thank you so much for all your advice an help! And thank you for the compliment on the tank, I'm very proud of this one.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
Or could a parasite come in through a bad batch of daphnia? I apologize if that is a dumb question.
Absolutely not a dumb question. Quite the opposite. Depends on the source but it is possible. If frozen, always defrost and rinse before feeding. If live also thoroughly rinse them, maybe even keep them in a container for 1-2 days before feeding them.

Ive read somewhere on a different forum post on another site that using some Epson salt (1 tbsp per 5 gallons) could help with inflammation and was wondering your thoughts or possible experience with that?
Epsom salt is a trick in cases of dropsy. Dropsy is only a symptom and basically onset kidney failure, resulting in liquid collecting in the body cavity. With a bath in epsom salt (NEVER in the main tank!) the osmotic pressure is reversed and water is extracted that way from the fish. This may relieve the dropsy symptoms, but not work on the ultimate cause.
But dropsy looks different from what your fish has. I see no signs of a bacterial infection. Again, if the fish had it for longer it would be already dead.

Thank you so much for all your advice an help! And thank you for the compliment on the tank, I'm very proud of this one.
You're welcome. And yes, you can be proud of that tank. Beautiful! :)
 

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
Absolutely not a dumb question. Quite the opposite. Depends on the source but it is possible. If frozen, always defrost and rinse before feeding. If live also thoroughly rinse them, maybe even keep them in a container for 1-2 days before feeding them.


Epsom salt is a trick in cases of dropsy. Dropsy is only a symptom and basically onset kidney failure, resulting in liquid collecting in the body cavity. With a bath in epsom salt (NEVER in the main tank!) the osmotic pressure is reversed and water is extracted that way from the fish. This may relieve the dropsy symptoms, but not work on the ultimate cause.
But dropsy looks different from what your fish has. I see no signs of a bacterial infection. Again, if the fish had it for longer it would be already dead.


You're welcome. And yes, you can be proud of that tank. Beautiful! :)
In case of a parasite from a possible recent bad batch of daphnia being the issue should I treat with dog dewormer? I have only used it against hydras before in a shrimp tank but a friend recommended it again
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
In case of a parasite from a possible recent bad batch of daphnia being the issue should I treat with dog dewormer?
No. With Daphnia you might rather have introduced protozoans. Dewormer would do exactly nothing against those. Also worm meds kill snails.

Last question:
Do the other fish show any symptoms? If not there is no parasitosis or disease at work here.
 

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
I don't believe I have seen any symptoms. Maybe the two females looks a little thin, but they are eating regularly and swimming normally. They might just be looking thin to me because of in contrast to the male. They had one round of babies that died off unfortunately 6 months ago. No breeding since but that might either be due to no environmental triggers to get them to breed or due to the males physical condition
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
Maybe the two females looks a little thin,
Pictures please.

No breeding since but that might either be due to no environmental triggers to get them to breed or due to the males physical condition
I would put my money on the male's condition. Does he display to the females?

Edit: Listen, it's almost midnight where I live and I am going to replace my tank with a bigger one tomorrow, so I'm off now. I'll be back on sunday, hope maybe someone else can help you until then.

But I am pretty sure it's simply a type of physical problem that is not really treatable.

Good luck and good night. :)
 

Smithni

New Member
Messages
10
Hello again, I apologize for not answering before, my notifications settings on my new phone are all jacked up. Thank you for all your advice and help! The females actually started eating a bit more and started filling out. Male still displays sometimes but not as often as he used to. The males prolapse might have gotten worse but doesn't appear to be affecting him too much
 

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