Apisto Raising Strategies?

[slimbolen99]

What is the best method for raising apistogramma (and nanochromis) fry to a saleable size? How many apisto fry can be raised to, say, half grown size, performing two 50% water changes a week and feeding live food? See below for my idea...

As of today, I have my apisto (and nanochromis) breeding groups in single-species 75 gallon tanks, most with at one pair or trio, a few tanks with more than one pair. Hopefully this arrangement will allow the parents to raise their fry past free swimming stage in a 4' long tank. After the fry have been free-swimming for two weeks, my idea is to "steal" 75% of the fry and move them to a 10 gallon to raise up. Using the "formula" above, how many fry do you suspect I can raise up in a 10 gallon?

I have eight species of apistogramma and four species of nanochromis that I would like to raise in this fashion, so I do have more than one 10 gallon to devote to each species...and obviously not every species is going to be spawning at the same time. I have twenty-six 10 gallon tanks available and the breeding groups are in eight 75 gallon tanks.

- Mike Wise described a way to provide hiding places in a small tank like this using small pieces of, say, 1" PVC tubing piled into the tank. How many fry should be kept in this sort of arrangement, and
- How long should I keep the fry in a 10 gallon before breaking them out into more 10 gallon tanks?

 

[beachcichlid]

I'm not a breeding expert, but I am a lazy aquarist. It seems to me you're going to be doing a lot of work stealing fry and moving them to smaller tanks. I would say let the parents raise them, especially since you're providing a spacious 75 gallon tank for the breeding pair. You're margin for error in water parameters and the like will be much narrower with the 10 gallon tanks. That leaves you, the new parent to the fish, scambling around.
I love the idea of having 8 tanks to breed different apistogrammas. Good Luck

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
You should be able to raise a considerable number of fry. I you had a brood of 40, I don't see any reason why you couldn't raise the majority of the 10 fry in the tank, and the 30 in the 10 gallon to 1/2 size. I think you will struggle to raise more than about 10 fish any bigger in the 10 gallon (particulary if this is US 10 gallon) with any of the more aggressive species.

I think you will need to up your water changes as the fish get bigger, probably to nearer 30% a day as you will need a tank with a lot of structure to avoid aggression problems.

Personally I honestly wouldn't go down this route, with unbalanced sex ratios you could end up with a lot of unsaleable fish. I won't post fish and I have to have 4 LFS that I can sell fish to even to distribute the relatively modest production of 2 x pairs of A. cacatuoides.

I've had a situation with both A. borellii and A. trifasciata where I ended up giving the fish away, and I still couldn't give them away as rapidly as they were breeding.

I would probably follow "Beanchilds" suggestion.

cheers Darrel

 

[animalmgc]

I've tried both ways and as u stated dw water changes increase in the 10 g.It seems the fry are happier being with mom

 

[Apistomaster]

I was able to raise a spawn of about 75 F1 Apistogramma agassizi to adults in a US 20 gal Long. I had removed the eggs and hatched them out using the artificial method.
I provided a about 200 hollow ceramic bio-media tubes to give every fish privacy and once they out grew those mini-caves, I left them in to break up the line of sight between fish for the most part. By the time they were about one cm long until they were full grown I changed 75% of the water daily.
I was a bit amazed out how well they they grew out. They all attained their normal adult sizes. I believe one factor which contributes to skewed sex ratios begins very early before I can sex them is aggression from the males. I think the juveniles can tell the difference very early in life and the males are more aggressive and displaced much of their aggression towards the less aggressive females. The constant stress of the males' aggression may cause a lot of the females to die before they are easily sexed.
I think a similar approach could be used in the ten gallon tanks but 10 or 12 fish is probably about all you could hope to raise in that small of a tank no matter how you try.
I fed my fish daily with newly hatched brine shrimp, FD Blood worms and Frozen blood worms.
The large daily water changes are mandatory and as soon as possible i acclimated my juveniles to living in tap water because it made making the large daily water changes easier.

 

[slimbolen99]

Thanks guys. I kind of left out a small aspect of my plans; because they are a year or two down the road. At that time I want to add 24 fifteen gallon (24"x12" footprint) to the room. Depending on the successes of raising fry in the 75 gallon tanks, or raising fry in the 10 gallon tanks, determines how I will use the 15 gallon tanks.

If the fry are growing out well in the 75s, then I'll probably use the 15s for breeding tanks; and then using the 75s for fry raising only.
If the fry are growing out better in the 10s, then I'll probably use the 15s for fry raising tanks, and then use the 75s for breeding purposes.

So, what I'm reading is that a more frequent water change schedule, along with feeding live foods, is going to dictate the growth rate of fry more than the size of tank they are in...which is fine. That is what I needed to know. Thank you very much!

 

[beachcichlid]

Can I ask what is your goal? - BeanCichlid

 

[tjudy]

75-gallons are great... but I do not think they are necessary for breeding unless you are going to try to establish a large colony/harem. A 20-long is usually plenty of space for a pair or trio, especially if you divide the line of site with a pile of wood. Remove a portion of the fry as you plan to do, and start them in the 10's. When they reach 1/2-3/4", transfer them to the 75-gallons to grow out... they will grow faster and to full size in the larger water, plus the mount of space will solve the aggression issues.

 

[gerald]

Clearly he's destined to become a multi-millionaire like all the other top-notch Apisto breeders here.

Can I ask what is your goal? - BeanCichlid

 

[slimbolen99]

Clearly he's destined to become a multi-millionaire like all the other top-notch Apisto breeders here.

For sure! I plan on putting both my kids through college, paying off the mortgage, and retiring before I'm fifty!

 

[beachcichlid]

Goin' to run the market, eh, Slimbolen? I had a feeling that's what you were up to. Well, I'll look for you on Aquabid in few months.

 

[hapaluku]

I was able to raise a spawn of about 75 F1 Apistogramma agassizi to adults in a US 20 gal Long. I had removed the eggs and hatched them out using the artificial method.
I provided a about 200 hollow ceramic bio-media tubes to give every fish privacy and once they out grew those mini-caves, I left them in to break up the line of sight between fish for the most part. By the time they were about one cm long until they were full grown I changed 75% of the water daily.
I was a bit amazed out how well they they grew out. They all attained their normal adult sizes. I believe one factor which contributes to skewed sex ratios begins very early before I can sex them is aggression from the males. I think the juveniles can tell the difference very early in life and the males are more aggressive and displaced much of their aggression towards the less aggressive females. The constant stress of the males' aggression may cause a lot of the females to die before they are easily sexed.
I think a similar approach could be used in the ten gallon tanks but 10 or 12 fish is probably about all you could hope to raise in that small of a tank no matter how you try.
I fed my fish daily with newly hatched brine shrimp, FD Blood worms and Frozen blood worms.
The large daily water changes are mandatory and as soon as possible i acclimated my juveniles to living in tap water because it made making the large daily water changes easier.

Hello Apistomaster...What is the artificial method of raising Apistogrammas...any links, videos or pic?

 

[Apistomaster]

I do not have any links to photos or videos showing how to artificially hatch and raise Apistogramma. There are a variety of techniques that are used. How I do it is I remove the newly laid eggs being careful to transfer them still attached to the inside of a pot or whatever other substrate the were placed on to another tank. I use a 16 X 8 X 8 all glass tank, I use it bare bottom at first and I use a heater and an air stone to circulate oxygenated water flow near the fry. I fill my tank about half way with water from the spawning tank. I add enough methylene blue to make it difficult to see through the water. Sometimes I use acriflavine. Each is a dye which has anti-fungal and antimicrobial action. As soon as I see signs of embryological development, I make a large water change and again to remove most of the dye.
The eggs hatch and as soon as the fry begin to go free swimming and take mikroworms I add a hand ful of the hollow ceramic bio-media for the fry to hide in and between. I leave them in this small tank until they are about 1/4" long, then move them to a larger grow out tank appropriate for the numbers of fry, adding more hiding tubes. It is just a matter of feeding them a lot of Artemia nauplii and microworms; gradually I begin introducing the fry to finely ground freeze dried blood worms. Larger foods when they are larger.
Sometimes all the eggs fail to hatch. Even when they were fertilized but normally at the very least one can save enough fry to have new breeding stock but most of the time the survival rates are pretty good. It is very similar to how many people mass produce Angelfish fry.

 

[sasikan]

when you do the water change to get rid of the dye , and the water change from now on, do you use water from the parents tank or do you use r\o water or cycle tap water?

 

[hapaluku]

Thanks Apistomaster, very very mutch, just what i was looking fore..

Best regarts.

 

[Apistomaster]

when you do the water change to get rid of the dye , and the water change from now on, do you use water from the parents tank or do you use r\o water or cycle tap water?

I use breeding tank water initially but then I usually and gradually begin to acclimate the fry to the water most convenient to use which for me is dechlorinated tap water. My local water is not too extreme so most fish do fine in it. It has a pH of 7.4, TDS about 140 ppm, KH 5 to 6 and a GH of about 6 to 7 degrees.
I use more tailored water based on RO for breeding some species but it is extra work to keep the fish in special water if I really do not have to. It is rarely necessary to raise fry to adults using mostly RO water. Just make any chemistry changes gradually. Usually over the course of three water changes most fish can be acclimated to the water you use most.

 

[blueblue]

also, please remember the temperature effect on sex ratio.