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apisto in distress...help please

Messages
32
Location
Gardner, MA
Hi,
Here is the situation. Last Friday I received a young pair of Apistogramma hongsloi.(Czech tank-bred) The male is about 1", the female maybe 3/4". He is already colored up nicely and was harassing her quite a bit in 20L. She wasn't eating, was hiding all the time. Monday he seemed too aggressive, so I removed her and put her in with a pair of young A. borelli slightly smaller than her. They don't seem to bother her at all, yet she now lies on bottom of tank and refuses food in front of her nose. She has apparently even refused live baby brine shrimp. Does anybody have any suggestions? It has now been over 5 days with no sign of her eating. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have no sick fish in any of my tanks, including the other fish in the 2 tanks she's been in. Thanks in advance. Mark
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Does her breathing rate look normal, or rapid? The only food I can think of that might be more tempting than fresh-hatched BS would be live mosquito larvae. You might need to partially crush them so they still twitch but cant swim away. Also is the tank warm enough? I know some folks keep borellii quite cool.
 
Messages
32
Location
Gardner, MA
Gerald, thanks for reply. Yes, her breathing does seem a bit rapid. Hard to tell as she's usually hidden well out of sight, but she is now on bottom right at front of tank in corner. Coloration seems distressed and pale. Did a good size water change, and found pH a bit high (7.6), so threw in an almond leaf, quickly brought it down to about 7.2. Yes, temp was about 76, I raised it a couple degrees. Just enough for the male borelli to actively start chasing the female...lol.

Thing is, she was same in other tank with male hongsloi, and temp in that tank is 79F, pH lower (6.8 roughly), and acted the same. The hongsloi and borelli are all Czech-bred fish that came to me from same source, and all the other fish seem happy and healthy. Don't have any mosquito larvae, unfortunately. I'm starting to think maybe parasites. Maybe I should treat with an all-purpose parasite med? What do you think? Mark
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Treatment is a shot-in-the-dark without knowing the cause, but yes you could try something like Prazi-Pro or similar product and hope you guessed right. Rapid breathing is a bad sign and often a symptom of infection (bacterial, parasite, etc) especially if you're pretty sure this isn't gill damage from transport or water quality issues (ammonia, nitrite, pH/osmotic shock, tranquilizer overdose, etc).
 
Messages
32
Location
Gardner, MA
Well, water parameters good. For now, added some non-iodized salt and raised temp a bit. The borellis she is in with are fine. Ordered some KanaPlex, as one of my "fish guys" recommended kanamycin for multi-purpose use (bacterial and parasitic) I think I can rule out most of the other things you listed (no obvious gill damage, and I don't think she was breathing hard in beginning, only when getting chased). The other 3 fish from same shipment are fine, so I suspect the stress of shipping and being chased by male weakened her. These fish came from Czech Republic to Chicago, driven to Wisconsin then shipped to Massachusetts in maybe a week's time.
She seems to be hanging in there, matter of fact, just looked and she was near surface by heater instead of on gravel in front of tank. When I got closer for a look she darted away. Yes, darted...lol. Long as she hangs in for a couple days, or maybe until Monday, meds will be here. Setting up hospital tank for her in a little bit. Not TOO worried about the A. borellis harassing her, but want to lower their temp anyway.
Thanks for input, Gerald. I'll keep you posted on her progress over next few days. Cheers! Mark
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Your water parameters are good, but it is possible that was not true for shipping. Way (way!) back in the 70s & 80s we always had mass apisto die-offs for no apparent reasons. I once took a group of newly imported apistos to a veterinarian/discus-breed friend. He euthanized them and did necropsies on all. The results were total erosion of the gill filaments due to high levels of ammonia produced by the fish while being shipped. The only way to help them recover was clean, well-oxygenated water and time to re-grow the gill filaments, which more often than not didn't occur fast enough. Hopefully your female is on the way to recovery.
 
Messages
32
Location
Gardner, MA
That's sad, Mike. Didn't know about that issue, as I wasn't keeping Apistos then (or any fish during some of that time frame). It may be something along that line, as she has headed to surface a couple of times to gulp air. I turned sponge filter air up to hopefully increase oxygen. She alternately looks SOMEWHAT ok, then on the verge of perishing. Meds SHOULD arrive tomorrow (was fastest I could arrange), and I have hospital tank set up. Hoping she will hang on. And, you know....the more I think about it, the more the gill damage makes sense. The fish in tank she came from are fine, and the fish she is in with now are fine. Sigh...will keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the info and well wishes, Gerald and Mike.
 
Messages
32
Location
Gardner, MA
Well, the expected has come to pass and so has my female A. honglsoi. Got her into hospital tank and administered one dose of KanaPlex, but to no avail.. She was gone this morning when I woke up. Mike's thoughts about the gill damage make lots of sense, but knowing the cause is little consolation. Hoping I can acquire another mate for male later, and am looking into tank dividers until he can learn to play nice with the ladies. Thanks again for the help, guys.
 

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