Apisto Identification help please?

[FishermanFly]

So, it's been a bit of a journey, I'll fill you in quickly.

I went to my LFS and bought a young male and female that were promised to be A. cacatuoides. They grow for a few days and the coloration is inconsistent with cacatuoides so I do some digging and think that they are A. panduro.

I then go to the same store to buy another female of the 'panduros' advertised as cacatuoides to try and get the male to choose a mate for breeding.

The 'resident' female is extremely unwelcoming though and I have now segregated the new female from the original as death was imminent.

I took a photo of them both fighting. They occasionally lock jaws with one another and really get quite rude.

This photo makes it seem as though the new female is a different species as well though?

Please could I get some assistance in ID'ing both females and whether or not they are of the same species?

The pic with them both fighting has the new female on the right - her colors are a lot lighter than some other times when she has the black spot on her side. Now that she's been alone for a bit the dark spot on her side has returned. You can see in the pic of her in the net. Sorry about the quality of photo.

The solo pic is of the male. He has colored up better since that photo though.

 

[gerald]

Fish on left is female; fish on right is a male (with red-orange crescent on tail)

 

[FishermanFly]

Here is a more colored picture of the new one which seems to look less and less like A. panduro as time progresses? Anyone know what these may be?

 

[FishermanFly]

Fish on left is female; fish on right is a male (with red-orange crescent on tail)

Even though the one on the right gets black on the sides as well as black ventral fins?

 

[Bart Hazes]

The new one is also a female panduro. The amount of black can be quite variable between females but they all have black on the ventral fins.

 

[FishermanFly]

The new one is also a female panduro. The amount of black can be quite variable between females but they all have black on the ventral fins.

Thanks for the reply Bart, and not possibly a different species of female? A. nijsseni or something possibly?

The male and other female are targetting her quite heavily. Not quite sure what to do? I wanted to create a harem for the male?

 

[Mike Wise]

Gerald I'm not sure that the fish on the right is a male, but could just be young. Anyway female A. panduro (which it looks like they are) comes in 2 forms. One (Brustband form) has a long lateral patch that extends from the lateral band to the ventral edge of the body. The other form has a lateral spot that is less expansive. It appears that your original pair have bonded and don't appreciate another fish in their brood territory. Unlike most apistos, A. paduro is not a harem spawner and actually forms temporary-to-long-term breeding pairs. You may lose the new female to aggression. Remove her as soon as you see her stressed (hiding in a dark corner or, worse yet, at the top of the tank).

 

[FishermanFly]

Okay perfect, thanks a lot for the replies guys - I do appreciate them. The apisto community seems like a wonderful thing indeed. I will monitor the situation and update if any more color changes occur in the next few weeks.

 

[gerald]

Didn't realize females could have that much red and blue.

 

[Bart Hazes]

Didn't realize females could have that much red and blue.

Hi Gerald, they don't have blue in the images shown (image1: female(left)/male(right), image2 male, image3 female. I've had females from the same spawn with very variable amounts of black patterning. Perhaps that is less with wild caught as these are my only tank-raised stock.

 

[FishermanFly]

Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate your help!

 

[FishermanFly]

Gerald I'm not sure that the fish on the right is a male, but could just be young. Anyway female A. panduro (which it looks like they are) comes in 2 forms. One (Brustband form) has a long lateral patch that extends from the lateral band to the ventral edge of the body. The other form has a lateral spot that is less expansive. It appears that your original pair have bonded and don't appreciate another fish in their brood territory. Unlike most apistos, A. paduro is not a harem spawner and actually forms temporary-to-long-term breeding pairs. You may lose the new female to aggression. Remove her as soon as you see her stressed (hiding in a dark corner or, worse yet, at the top of the tank).

So, the matter has complicated literally over night. The original female used to chase everyone in the tank. She used to chase the new female more aggressively than the male though. Her and the male were displaying non aggressively at times with each other though.

But now, this morning - the male has assumed the role of the aggressor and is chasing both females aggressively?

Do you have any advice as to what I need to do? Could water quality have something to do with this behaviour or what should I do?

I do partial water changes every week, and have a lot of cover such as three pieces of driftwood, 9 plants, floating hornwort, rocky caves etc.

There are 8 danios in the tank as well. Would they have anything to do with it?

 

[gerald]

Hi Gerald, they don't have blue in the images shown (image1: female(left)/male(right), image2 male, image3 female..

Bart: OK - that's what I thought too regarding sexes. Guess I misunderstood FF's original post -- I though he was saying the photo showing two fish was the new female and the old female fighting.

FF: Chasing probably does not indicate a water quality problem. You might need to separate them for awhile until they look interested in being together. I like screen dividers so they can still see and smell each other, and so that when you remove the divider neither fish is in a "new" tank. Also I dont think the danios are the cause of the cichlids chasing.

 

[FishermanFly]

Thanks so much! I will carry on watching and will add a dividider if it carries on. It's a great idea.

 

[Apissedoffgramma]

Lovely Apistos. They do look like Panduros to me. Hopefully your female is not turning into a male. It’s so hard when they are so young, i guess it’s just a case of waiting for them to colour up

 

[FishermanFly]

Hi all, I believe you will all be happy to hear that all three apistos are still alive, and that the original two went missing today (found them cuddling in a cave). I expect they are spawning, as they are defending the cave from loaches passing by.

It is their first spawn and they are still very young so I doubt it will be successful, but I'm pretty chuffed as I only got them a couple of weeks ago.

The danios in the tank worry me and I will remove at least half of them. Are there any proven dithers that are best with panduros?

 

[Mike Wise]

See: http://apisto.sites.no/page.aspx?PageId=120

 

[FishermanFly]

What an awesome post! Thanks Mike

 

[Mike Wise]

Tom has a wealth of information.