Apisto Genetics

[cootwarm]

Being new to the Apisto hobby, I have many questions before I actually purchase fish. I'm not necessarily looking to purchase "show fish", but I do want to find good quality specimens. I'd love to hear your opinions and advice on this topic.

I've been interested in raising Apistos for quite a few years, but Apistos are rare in the shops in my area. I've only talked to a couple people who have raised Apistos and that was many years ago. Until now, I haven't had the necessary time or space to pursue this interest. I'm hoping if I'm able to raise some good quality Apistos, I'll be able to get more people from my area interested.

Actually, I can't even say I'm new at this, because I haven't purchased even my first Apisto! I'm even greener than new! Although I have raised some Kribinsis and Salvini's and Blue Acra's in the past and I currently have a pair of Salvini's preparing to spawn any day now.

Anyhow, here are a few of the "genetics" questions that have come to mind:

- Being "uncommon" fish that raise small families, it seems that there probably has been some serious inbreeding. Is this a problem at all with Apistos?
Are the more colorful specimens more inbred or less inbred?

- If they are more inbred then how does this effect their health and longevity?
- What is the life expectancy of an Apisto? Does it vary from species to species?

- Are wild Apistos still collected? All species?

- I heard that many of the Apistos available in the U.S. are from German stock. How true is this?
- Are German Apistos as healthy as they are attractive?

- any links to any web articles on this topic? good book?

Michael

 

[tjudy]

We have had some great discussions in here about inbreeding and genetics. Do a search on 'inbreeding' and you should find them.

I would say that there are A LOT of wild apistos available, and the the tendancy in the hobby to try to maintain the strains as close to wild as possible. Since this is impossible to do in a captive environment, most people wiill keep and breed wild to F2 and then look for new wild stock to breed back into their F2 generations or start over again.

Opinions differ about the effects of inbreeding, but one general consensus is that the overall health of the fish is negatively affected (though I have seen some very tough and scrappy triple-red cockatoos).

Wild fish generally do not come from Germany, but we get some nice captive strains. Especially the more colorful cockatoos. There are several good places to get wild and F1 fish.. this site is one of them.

 

[Neil]

cootwarm,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

The health, longentivity, and genetic integrity will relate in large part to the importer and breeder of the various species.
German fish can suffer from the same problems that any other fish have, but there are some very fine breeders in GR that have exceptional fish.
Wild fish are still regularly collected and brought into this country, but usually must be attended to by someone who is versed in diseases or can cause problems.
Captive raised species are regularly inbreed because they are rare enough to not benefit from breeding via divergent populations, but are usually very sound fish, when dealt with by somenoe who follows Teds suggestions. Genetic integrity is not so much of a problem here in the US because we still see regular wild importations. Whether a breeder uses these or not is an individual matter. But, apisto species maintenance is difficult enough that there are not that many breeders out there who have 3rd generations or more of the same population. Some, but not alot.
I think that your best bet would be to find nice-looking healthy fish from a reliable source and not worry too much about their genetics. But, if you are tentative, look for wilds. They can be had.
Neil

 

[cootwarm]

Thank you for the info. It answered many of my questions. I'm planning to set up an Apisto tank or two toward the end of summer. In the meantime I want to get all my "ducks in a row", so when I run into problems I'm prepared to deal with them.

I was refered to this book:
Dr. Uwe Romers new book "Baensch Cichlid Atlas" and it is 1200 pages--45.00

Does this book have much info directly related to Apisto's? (If you're familar with it, of course)

Thanks Again for your help.

Michael

 

[P.W.]

Hi

This book of Romer is entirely about south american dwarf cichlids. The major part is of course about Apistos, but you can also find a lot about Nannacara, Dicrossus and Laetacara.
The book have a wonderful collection of photos. Species pictured in for example: normal mood, aggressive mood or breeding mood. Very helpful when identifying apistospecies of course.

This book have everything! Read and enjoy. The only negative things about the book is the format and the absence of a register! The species info put together in alphabetical order so they are easy to locate. But if you are looking for references to species mentioned elsewhere in the book, you have problems.

My recommendation is; BUY!


Best regards

 

[Randall]

Apisto Books

Dear Michael,

The "Romer Atlas" is a must read for anyone who is serious about dwarf cichlids. I highly recommend it.

The Apistogramma Study Group is offering a special deal on this reference through their web site at www.apisto.com. Please check it out.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[cootwarm]

Baensch Cichlid Atlas

Thanks for the review guys. Sounds like it's the bible of Apisto keepers. I've raised other tropical fish before, but nothing requiring such fussy water conditions. I've never measured anything in my water other than the temperature. I've successfully raised a few South American species like Glowlight Tetras, Kribinsis and Salvini. I had a pair of Angelfish one time that spawned many times, but they alway ate the young when they became free swimming. I eventually was able to get a batch from them. They took care of them for 2 weeks before I lost my nerve and removed the parents from the tank.

Matter of fact I have a pair of Salvini's that just spawned this morning. But I'm not sure how long this will last because they are in a 20gal that is bare expecpt a few flat rocks and a plastic plant. So they are kind of nervous. We'll see. When they are done I'm moving them to a larger tank so I can use the 20gal for a trio of A.cacatoides.

And Thanks Randall for the tip on the deal at ASG. I was thinking of joining anyhow, now I can do that and get a deal on the book. (I found it $59 locally so far)

Michael