1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Apisto Eunotus

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by pastry, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hopefully getting a new cell phone this week so I can take some good pictures. I have two pairs of Apisto Eunotus in my 150 gallon discus tank and one pair has already spawned twice. About a dozen from the first spawn have survived on their own and the second batch has about half a dozen. I've read on this form as well as on the internet all sorts of things with these fish. I have read that males spawn with multiple females, males usually spawn with only one, only females raise the little ones, both parents raise little ones... whatever it may be, I have noticed that my pear has stayed together away from the other two fish and while the female does most of the duties raising the little ones, she somewhat permits the male to hang around and at times watch the kiddos briefly while she goes and grabs a quick bite to eat.

    I may have more little ones in my tank then I realize because it is heavily planted and has tons of driftwood. Unsure if anyone ever seeks some but would definitely be interested to know. I do understand that this species varies drastically in looks. Again, I'll try to take a picture of the actual pair but I will say that both males that I have look very different. Even the females are noticeably different.

    Originally I wanted Panduras but the breeder was out of them at the time. I was inpatient so I settled for the eunotus although I thought they were sort of bland from the pictures on the internet. I actually love the variety of them and really love their personality and temperament.
    Bobblehead27 likes this.
  2. Bobblehead27

    Bobblehead27 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Wow. Very interesting. Where are you located?
  3. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,848
    Likes Received:
    1,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 'type' A. eunotus hasn't been in the hobby since the late 1980s. What is now sold as "A. eunotus" includes several different forms/populations/species. Eunotus-complex species tend to be what I call 'casually polygamous'. A male will generally have one female in its territory if there are several other males and females in the tank. If there are more females than males with territories then the male will keep several female brood territories in his territory and breed with them all. Males are generally not allowed really close to fry (within 4"/10cm), but if there are no potential fry predators in a tank females may become more relaxed with a male coming closer to the brood.
  4. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I'm located in Charleston, SC. Sorry for no pics yet. I received my new phone but haven't switched yet due to death in family. (My wife's grandfather... which is Wierd to me since I don't know anyone left our age with a grandparent... So I haven't yet asked her to help switch phone over... and yes, I was too lazy to figure it out! Sorry!).

    To be honest, I'm not sure if second female is a female. Might be subordinate male. But non-spawning male does not harass her and allows her to be on his side of the tank. The actual spawning female is usually pretty protective of her spawn even against the spawning male but at about 1 week of free swimming, she allows him closer and closer.
  5. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    20191005_233919.jpg 20191005_233019.jpg 20191005_233919.jpg 20191005_233019.jpg 20191005_232900.jpg 20191005_232729.jpg

    Attached Files:

    dw1305 likes this.
  6. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Full tank
    20190426_224016.jpg
  7. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Here are a few more pictures. A few with the mom in her golden dress. If you look towards the bottom you might see two of the little lines from the first spawn. 20191006_133913.jpg 20191006_134036.jpg 20191006_133913.jpg 20191006_134036.jpg 20191006_132917.jpg
    yukondog likes this.
  8. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I don't post much on this form but seriously, you guys are pretty darn nice. Thanks for the likes. I've never experienced that on a forum. I usually post on The discus Forum but I usually have to be very careful... and there is no option to like!

    Meanwhile, I really do think there are a lot more little ones from the first spawn. When changing the water yesterday I accidentally netted a few out when trying to weed out the exploding cherry shrimp situation. I only went at shrimp that were at the very top of the water and usually I see the little eunotus towards the bottom with only a few times seeing them in the middle water column.
  9. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
  10. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I have strong doubts about all your fish being a form of A. cf. eunotus. Especially the male in the second and second last photo looks different. It MIGHT be A. paulmuelleri or something closely related. But this is merely a wild guess. To be more certain, better photos would be needed. Preferably of the fish in side-view showing some of it's black markings, especially lateral band, caudal spot and abdominal markings.
  11. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Frank, I'm all ears! I will try to get better photos. Meanwhile, the last two pictures are of the same male. The Male in this picture looks so much bigger, fatter, and the shape of the head is very different. I will get better pictures of each soon and post them.
    20191013_231028.jpg 20191013_230852.jpg
  12. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I know these are still not much better in regards to pictures of the random apistogramma male but I am trying to figure out what it is. All I can say is, it is definitely much bigger than the 2 Eunotus males I have ( I have definitely figured out that I only have one female. The other is a submissive male). So I think this looks more like a veijta male due to spot on caudal fin base and not as brilliant as even the most least brilliant macmasteri. That said, I'm only going off of Google Images on both types, Beyond looking into different forms and Old Post. Honestly I would love for one of you experts to chime in. I can't figure out what it is.

    20191021_195427.jpg 20191021_195427.jpg

    Meanwhile, I have two different spawns of eunotus juveniles hidden throughout the big tank.

    Attached Files:

  13. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The fish in your last few photos is likely an A. cf. eunotus form, maybe A. cf. eunotus "Orangeschwanz/Orange-tail".
    I was talking about the fish with the red markings on its lower head, i.e. this one:

    Unbenannt.png
  14. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Frank, sorry... my bad! I really do want to figure out what fish I have so please feel free to red ink the heck out of me. I know that requires me to get more pictures though. Seriously, the difference between that fish and the other is significant in regards to shape and size. When trying to look on the internet then it is hard to discern what is what when saying the same picture of a fish called two different things on two different sites. I see it all the time with wild discus. Apistogramma is not my background but I know with you and others on here then I can drill down to what species they are. Thank you so much! I will work on getting some pictures this weekend!
  15. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Frank and others, here are updated pics of the male Frank pointed out. Is it a eunotus?

    20191026_203940.jpg 20191026_203940.jpg 20191026_204120.jpg

    Attached Files:

  16. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
  17. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    43
    As suspected it's not an eunotus form but rather A. paulmuelleri.
    I hope you have a matching female for him!
    dw1305 likes this.
  18. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I do! They are the pair that have had 2 spawns already :)

    I am pretty darn confident that I also have another male of the same species but not dominant. I do not believe it is a female because of all the coloration on the face as well as the size compared to my confirmed female.
    20191026_204738.jpg

    Then finally, the 4th one that came with them is the one that is much bigger, different markings, have more of a snout and hump on the head, and I'm pretty sure it is not of the same species.
    20191026_204631.jpg
  19. Frank_H

    Frank_H Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Yes, your 3rd A. paulmuelleri is a male. As said earlier, your 4th fish (the one from post #12) is likely A. cf. eunotus "Orangeschwanz/Orange-tail".
  20. pastry

    pastry New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Well crap, you nailed it. Definitely paulmuelleri . I really like them.... but originally wanted panduros or nijensis. Breeder said fresh out and sold me on eunotus... yet now see I have one eunotus and 3 paulmeulleris. WTH? either way, I still really like them but eventually I would really like the original fish that I wanted. Anyone want some paulmuelleri babies?

    I guess I need to ask someone to change the name of this thread so it doesn't mislead people in the future.

    Frank, seriously, thank you. It was frustrating me when I was looking up the fish online and it just never seemed right. Now I know what they are!
    Andy452, dw1305 and Frank_H like this.