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Apisto cacatouides breeding pair issues

Mattports

New Member
Messages
5
So I have a pair of apistogramma cacatouides double red. The female is a pale yellow almost tan some black spots but nice colored fins. Since I’ve had them (6 monthsish) they haven’t really showed any signs of spawning. Been feeding frozen bbs, regular brine, frozen blood worms, live black worms and trying pellets with not much luck. Planted tank with a terracotta pot hide. Ph at 6.5-6.8 remineralized RO water. Tank temp at 77-78. I’ve been considering getting a female on aquabid but wasn’t sure if there are any other things I could try first to excite them.
 

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rasmusW

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
444
Have you tried to redecorate the tank a bit? -maybe they don’t like their current accomentations. Perhaps add more than one cave for them. So they got something to choose from.

It would also help a lot if you could provide a picture of your setup as is.

Lastly, are you sure it’s a pair?

-well, just my thoughts…

-r
 

Mattports

New Member
Messages
5
Honestly not sure if it’s really a proven pair guy at the lfs I’ve been going to for years said they were but who really knows if he just wanted to get rid of them. Just redecorated a few days ago and they’ve come up more to the front and not hiding as much but took out 2 plastic caves for this one. Added dwarf sagittaria and 3 pencil fish which made them more active as well. Back pot is a diy filter with some stratum and ceramic media. 20H tank
 

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rasmusW

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
444
if you could get pictures of both fish, i'm sure someone here can help, sexing them.

about the tank. i would double or triple the amount of decor to add more visual boundaries. same goes for the floating plants.
lastly, if you are planning on breeding them i would switch the n. beckfordi with n. marginatus or n. eques.
a lot of folks here will tell you beckfordi is fry predators.

-r
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
564
Location
San Francisco
What is the behavior of the two fish? e.g., Is there a lot chasing? Do they just hide?

Do you know the TDS or hardness of your water? What levels do you remineralize to?
 

Mattports

New Member
Messages
5
So Tap water which I was using came out like 350ish tds. I’ve been remineralizing RO to 130~ (Salty shrimp gh/kh+) 10% daily water changes the past week but I’ve read people using pure RO too so maybe still too hard/using the wrong thing. Also was told I could use baking soda and something else. Going to recheck parameters and repost. They chill don’t chase each other really and have been super active and one has been right at the front of the glass today. But the one in the original picture hides in the pot or behind the other pot or in the sticks and Java moss. People on Reddit said it’s a sneaker male which I was why I came here. Also got the salty shrimp ghkh + recommendation from Reddit
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
564
Location
San Francisco
Your water sounds fine, cacatuoides don't need pure RO. Honestly, even 350 TDS would work for them but you may have other reasons for using RO. If the one is hiding, I agree that more cover could help bring it out more. Sounds counterintuitive, but it often works. Has it been hiding the whole time, or just recently?

You also might not have a pair, as noted above.
 

Mattports

New Member
Messages
5
Currently 240 tds 8dgh 2 dkh 6.8 ph.
Other tank that’s just tap is at 500 tds and that’s after a 50% change yesterday. Before the ro water apisto tank had gh of 20 and kh of 15~ with tap so I figured it would help. Sorry for the glare but at least it’s clean glass lol
 

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Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
564
Location
San Francisco
It's often hard to tell with strains that have been bred for color. A lot of females have male characteristics in these cases. However, I will say the fish hiding behind the rock could definitely be male. That long orange strand on the dorsal that arcs a bit and ends in the rock could be a fin extension.
 

Mazan

Active Member
Messages
281
Could well be two males. I had 3 wild caught cacatuoides that initially looked to be a male and two females. They all turned out to be males. One of them developed obvious male characteristics when I removed the dominant male. The other has stayed a lot smaller but still looks like a male.
 

Mattports

New Member
Messages
5
Since switching to RO water they’ve been getting better color and been up at the glass way more. And I finally got them eating vibrabites by feeding little frozen bloodworms and vibrabites together. That tank has 10 gallons on either side so maybe the guppies are too much movement on the other side too. Going to put some black vinyl between tanks.
 

Garri Ausmus

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
I can tell you how to get instant spawns and even male to female ratio. I removed the heater and got two spawns 28 days apart. Apisto sex ratio is determined by temp. At 78 degrees you may get a spawn once a year and mostly all males, at 72 degrees they are triggered to spawn and the ratio is even, at 68 begrees you will get more females. if you look at the picture below you will see no heaters in the tanks and two batches of fry around a hundred a spawn. I have been a breeder since 1983 and have 40 tanks in my basement. I did apistos because i was told they were hard to breed. A lot of studying led me to their trigger and taught me to love those little guys. I bred Agassizii, Bitaeniata, cacatuoides, and Hongsloi Red and found them some of the easiest to get spawns from. Below is two tens with two spawns 28 days apart and the female stayed with the fry 2 weeks, i removed the male at one week. the second picture is my super red x4 female. I also bred orange flash Cacatuoides pictured below.
 

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Garri Ausmus

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
I am now breeding cichlid species that are extinct in the wild to keep them alive in the hobby. Example, I got the last wild caught pair of giant Kribs (P. Sacramontis) out of the niger delta before there was over 2.5 million barrels of crude oil dumped in the delta that destroyed their habitat forever. Also hit hard in the delta were elephant nose fish. they are alive in the hobby and available rarely. if you want more females than males drop the apistos temp to 68 degrees F.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,173
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
There is no one way to breed apistos successfully. If it works for you, that is wonderful. As for apistos being "hard to breed", well every apisto species ever brought into the hobby in sufficient numbers (more than 1 or 2 imports) has been successfully reproduced in aquaria.
 

Garri Ausmus

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
38
There is no one way to breed apistos successfully. If it works for you, that is wonderful. As for apistos being "hard to breed", well every apisto species ever brought into the hobby in sufficient numbers (more than 1 or 2 imports) has been successfully reproduced in aquaria.
Yes that is true but what i am referring to is apistos are listed as for advanced aquarists. and the fact that there are more males available due to temp of spawns. and they are listed as 60 to 90 range temp, 6 to 9 PH, and a wider range of hardness than most other tropical fish. I have never gotten an apisto i couldnt spawn in less than 30 days from getting them, many different species. I am just trying to share my findings over many spawns and many pairs since 1983. Isnt this what this site is about?
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,173
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
As I said, "There is no one way to breed apistos successfully. If it works for you, that is wonderful." Your years of apisto breeding experience (almost as many as mine) shows. Others might want to try your methods and see how they work. However your low temperature suggestion runs counter to most other experienced apistophiles and scientific studies with controlled conditions.
 

Apistomaster

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
703
Location
Clarkston, WA
Assuming a "pair" which hasn't spawned in 6 months, I'd separate them for a few weeks and then make another attempt. My experience has been that a male and female A. cacatuoides which have been separated a few weeks will often spawn within days of being brought together.
I'm not an optimist for a pair which hasn't spawned in my care in 6 months of trying.
My first time successful breeding of an Apistogramma was back in 1968. Been in this hobby awhile.
 

yukondog

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
664
Location
N.W. Fl.
I agree with Apistomaster, I have done this before with mine. But I rearrange the tank then add the female and add the male about four weeks later.
 

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