agassizii or cacatuoides (or borelli)

[anewbie]

The loaches are a mystery. I've spent hours going through the less obvious sources/videos to figure it out. There are recurring theories on seriously fish and monster fish keepers multiple species of what's called a Golden Zebra Loach or a hybrid species being traded. Mine look wildly different than wild caught GZ Loaches. They won't ever reach 4".
The tiny one was sickly when I got it, we named him Sneezy when we got him. He's very small, the only one that looks like botia histrionica.
My own personal theory, most fish sold at every Petco/PetSmart are always max out at smaller side of average, and die of old age faster. Would make sense that bulk suppliers selectively breed smaller, faster maturing species. None of the fish I've gotten from there never passed the lower end of "adult size". My leopard gourami is 4", Bleeding Heart Tetra's are all under 2.5". All 5y/o like the loaches.

I've had yoyo sold by petco get to 6 inches - btw petco knowling mixes golden zebra and yoyo so you never know what you are getting unless you can carefully identify them - i ended up with a mix and they were easy to identify after the first year. None of them were runts or small after a year.

It is a problem that asia farms has started cross breeding these various fishes (probably to increase the yield) and one is best off with wc - some of these hybrid seem to be quite vicious relative to the wild ones. Still if they were true golden zebra i would be leary mixing them with dwarf cichlid - they are too assertive. As i noted earlier zebra would probably work (no guarantee) as these are much more passive and shy and are likely to avoid conflict at all cost. The clowns - even small are way too active and clumsy for dwarf cichlid (not to mention they get way too large given enough time). My angels have decided to get rest at night to go to the planted side of the tank to sleep since the clowns make too much noise - this is a long term concern but unrelated to your issue. Sort of like mixing pymy cory with dwarf cichild. I beleive it would work and intend to test it next year - because unlike most cory species pymgy seem adaptive in behavior and like to avoid conflict. The larger cory - like loaches; just ignore what is going on around them and never seem to learn - of course some loach species are extremely vicious and will out right attack pretty much anything in their territory but that too is a side matter.

 

[vertigo]

I agree, and there is no book I can think of that would advise to combine loaches and Apistogramma.

It would It was be exceedingly rare to get either to breed as tank mates. They're from different parts of the planet. Add to that how rare Appistos are as hobby fish. I wouldn't expect there be a ton of published info out there.
Size and temperament

I've had yoyo sold by petco get to 6 inches - btw petco knowling mixes golden zebra and yoyo so you never know what you are getting unless you can carefully identify them - i ended up with a mix and they were easy to identify after the first year. None of them were runts or small after a year.

It is a problem that asia farms has started cross breeding these various fishes (probably to increase the yield) and one is best off with wc - some of these hybrid seem to be quite vicious relative to the wild ones. Still if they were true golden zebra i would be leary mixing them with dwarf cichlid - they are too assertive. As i noted earlier zebra would probably work (no guarantee) as these are much more passive and shy and are likely to avoid conflict at all cost. The clowns - even small are way too active and clumsy for dwarf cichlid (not to mention they get way too large given enough time). My angels have decided to get rest at night to go to the planted side of the tank to sleep since the clowns make too much noise - this is a long term concern but unrelated to your issue. Sort of like mixing pymy cory with dwarf cichild. I beleive it would work and intend to test it next year - because unlike most cory species pymgy seem adaptive in behavior and like to avoid conflict. The larger cory - like loaches; just ignore what is going on around them and never seem to learn - of course some loach species are extremely vicious and will out right attack pretty much anything in their territory but that too is a side matter.

My loaches aren't aggressive. But that thing loaches do, swim up/down the floors, walks, plants,rock surfaces tasting everything... the do that to the other fishes. If it was aggressive there would be nipped fins, missing scales. None of that is happening. But it spooks why fish that can't shoo them away. They're clumsy but dense, I need something not aggressive but assertive and a little thicker than skirt tetras
My tank is heavily planted and has slate caves/platform.

All that being said, I do not like the loaches. They're reepy and obnoxious. I'd give them away if I knew they were going to a good home. I feel like they're size and temperament are too much for a new tank, too small and helpless for an established big tank. If they do get to 4-6inches it would be easier to re-home.

Loaches grew faster than the Bolivian Rams who were already the shiest, slowest, fish in the tank. The were too stressed after a couple of years had to be rehomed

I think the best best is a smaller cichlid that doesn't hang out at the bottom. I used to keep Festivums in the late 90's they're be a great tankmate but those guys have dropped off in popularity (never at LFS, online only, often overpriced, usually out of stock, way too tiny/young when they do pop up).
I need to pick an afternoon look up what cichlids are available, then look up their temperament, size,water conditions.

 

[vertigo]

I agree, and there is no book I can think of that would advise to combine loaches and Apistogramma.

I think some none bottom dwelling cichlids that get to 3-5in will be a good mix with my brood l. Festivum , angelfish, something like that.

 

[MacZ]

I think some none bottom dwelling cichlids that get to 3-5in will be a good mix with my brood l. Festivum , angelfish, something like that.

Yes, Mesonauto would be an option if you were not keeping Gourami. I'd go with some good sized gourami instead. Just as I already wrote in your other thread. Medonauta and Pterophyllum basically fill the same niche and it's best to keep every niche filled out by one species in the tank.