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Apistogramma panduro and 'mirror therapy'

tjudy

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Stoughton, WI
Here is a video of a new pair of A. panduro cooperating to defend their space... from a mirror. I know that a lot of people use mirrors to watch their apistos' behavior. I am curious to know whether the general consensus of using a mirror is helpful, harmful or neutral. Personally, I think that it is helpful... and I have some specific reasons why. But I want to read other comments/opinions before sharing my observations.

 

ErtyJr

Active Member
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245
Location
Philadelphia, PA
What excellent timing ted!

I'll be watching this post closely, I have been considering over just this past week adding mirrors for my cacatuoides! Have to see what info pops up.
 

tjudy

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Cichlids, especially pair-bonding species that defend territories, are hard-wired to identify and eliminate threats. I believe that the cooperative behaviors associated with establishing and defending a spawning site are an important part of forming and maintaining a strong pair bond. Threats from other cichlids (territorial threats) and other fish (predatory threats) are common, so there are many instances when the behaviors are reinforced. Aquarium life is different... no threats. But the fish are still going to instinctively look for things to attack and drive away. So we use targets and dithers, and every now and then the cichlids kill one. A dither is only half of the equation. The territorial defense is also important. The best strategy would be to keep the fish in tanks large enough to house multiple pairs, or groups with multiples of each sex, with plenty of space for multiple territories. Small tanks are more problematic. I breed most dwarf cichlids in 10-gallon tanks. That is too small for some species to have a target cichlid in the tank... especially for aggressive species like A. panduro. Most people are not going to want to risk the life of an expensive fish just to provide the behavior stimulus of a territorial threat. I use a mirror a couple times of week for a few minutes to stimulate the behavior.

What can happen if the need for that territorial response is not met? The fish are still looking for threats. They expect them to be there. Sometimes (not every time) one of the pair will see the other as a threat. Makes sense... the mate is the only other fish in the tank. On multiple occasions I have had a male (and sometimes a female) go 'crazy' and kills its mate for no apparent reason. I call this destructive behavior 'fishy schizophrenia' because I think that it happens because the killer becomes so stressed looking for threats that he (or she) suddenly turns on his mate.

My first solution was to switch using larger tanks and always having a target cichlid in the aquarium with the pair. That worked. If I had a target cichlid in the aquarium, I never again saw a fish kill its mate. I still use that strategy when I can, but if I get a pair that are too efficient at killing targets I switch over to mirror therapy. That works as well, but perfectly. Sometimes a pair becomes immune to the mirror, which is why it needs to be used sparingly. A few times I have gone too long between therapy sessions, and a beating of a mate occurred. The most dangerous time for a female apisto, in my experience, is a few days after a failed spawning, when the female is not ready to spawn yet and the male sees her as an invader to his territory.
 

abrooks12376

Active Member
Messages
201
Best post I have ever read! Makes so much sense now.. i had a pair in a 10 for 4 months, no successful spawns but she a was always in dress. One morning she was on the floor, dead. I had a glass versa top, only way out was a 1" square by the filter,.either it was a glorious attempt or she wanted out so bad she found that spot and left him.. I've since added a new female and moved the pair to a bangin 20l.. they seem happy, spawned about 70 free swimmers 8 days after moving.. now.. he will go after her, she flattens out and retreats to a cave, he follows.. individually speaking.. he had shown signs of extreme aggression before (not her).. is doing nothing going to land me another dead female? Their are currently anywhere from 4-7 fry in the tank, they hide well. I plan on moving them once they're around an inch..
 

rr16

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5 Year Member
Messages
536
I tend to find that an abundance of leaf litter helps too! I have a pair of A. panduro that have just spawned again. They have fry in the tank which are around 2 months old and swim around with the mother and shoal sometimes. There are also 2-4 young A. panduro/A. nijsseni hybrid young in the tank (around 4 months old) that are getting bigger now and the male enjoys chasing them away, which I guess gives him the territorial response. There are also lots of other fish in the tank and my Copella even have territorial disputes with the A. panduro, as well as giving that predatory response, as do the sailfin tetras and neons. I seem to end up with a good few fry left and there's lots of leaf litter which helps prevent the target fish getting killed, but also, it really helped the male when I first put him in as it was the female's territory and he spent most of the first couple of weeks hiding in the leaves until she can into season - I think this may be why people often say A. panduro are difficult to pair as they need plenty of hiding places until the sexual urges take over!
 

AquaPorn

New Member
Messages
6
Location
Pingree Grove, IL
Thanks Ted!

I just started trying this out with the A. Atahualpa as the male is quite aggressive towards the females.

I wish I'd found this earlier as my male Aggie went crazy and destroyed the female.

Odd with some it's not a worry. 2 weeks ago I added 2 female Ortegai with my established male, and I've gotten a spawn from each female...sad broods really. 9 fry from one and a whopping 2 from the other, but my point is they seemed to bond effortlessly.

Which reminds me that's why I'm here tonight. Searching for info to increase brood size.

Thanks again
 
Last edited:

Darkstorm1976

Member
Messages
30
Location
Hadfield, Sunny UK
Well, I tried the mirror.. it was more entertaining to the Black Widow Tetra male, who was showing off and wopping it with his tail.. Female Apisto flared at it and flushed up bright yellow with a black stripe, showing off.
 

rr16

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
I've had a male spawn at about 3cm. Had a female nijsseni spawn at around 3cm too
 

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