What do we think of red wrigglers?

[aarhud]

BBS, microworms, grindal worms, and especially blackworms get a lot of attention for live food. What about red wrigglers?
Anybody feed them regularly? They sound like a good low maintenance easy to culture food to add to the menu.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I have a culture of them, and I also add a few to the Grindal worm cultures. They are excellent food, and the fish really like them.

You have to be a little bit careful which worm you start with, as Eisenia foetida ("Tiger" or "Brandling" worm) isn't very palatable. The worm you want is the Red Worm - Lumbricus rubellus, although I've found that Dendrobaena "veneta" (Eisenia hortensis) is also eaten. I got mine originally from the compost bin in the garden, but several sellers of food for herps etc. sell worms by name.

Have a look at these posts for more details: <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/live-food-for-adult-apistos.13290/> & <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/red-wigglers.14493/>.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

Also note that all worms have a higher fat content. They should be used for conditioning and occasional feedings. Otherwise your fish can become obese and have shorter lives - just like people!

 

[aarhud]

Thanks Mike. I mostly want a food to help with conditioning. Would you feed the worms once a week?

Thanks Darrel, the worms I was about to order were the fetida. I do not see the tastier worms offered for sale anywhere?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Also note that all worms have a higher fat content. They should be used for conditioning and occasional feedings. Otherwise your fish can become obese and have shorter lives - just like people!

As ever good advice, I think this was exactly what happened to the Dicrossus maculatus in this thread: <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/1st-d-maculatus-spawn.12389/>.

Thanks Darrel, the worms I was about to order were the fetida. I do not see the tastier worms offered for sale anywhere?

I think you should be able to get them from sellers of live food for reptiles, and you may be able to get Dendrobaena (Eisenia hortensis) as a fishing bait worm, they sell them as "European or Belgian Night Crawlers" in the USA.

Lumbricus rubellus may be more difficult, a lot of the links I looked at call them "Leaf worms", and your best bet may be Amphibian keepers forums. I just collected them from our compost heap, if you were in the UK I could just post some.

This was the best I could do: <http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/worms.shtml>

cheers Darrel

 

[aarhud]

I have a small area outside of my house that stays damp, and there are always worms there. Different types too, most stay small and I'm sure they are one of the red worm species. I'll collect a couple of try to ID them, maybe I can get lucky and find one of the yummy types.

Earthworms are so big, I would think they would be a pain to cut up for most of the species I keep. But I guess I can deal with chopping them up into bite size pieces if I can't find a smaller worm to culture.

I think the lack of live food is holding me back from a spawning stand point. I never have trouble spawning fish eventually, but I don't get a consistent spawning cycle from more demanding fish.

 

[gerald]

Aaron, those little soft-bodied red worms we have in NC/SC that are common in leaf litter and come out on roads and sidewalks after a heavy rain are great fish/herp food. I think they may be Lumbricus rubellus but I'm not sure. I also find paler pinkish-brown worms with yellowish insides (Eisenia maybe?) and another kind of pink-gray worms that are stiff-bodied and thrash around vigorously, both of which are NOT as palatable to fish and herps. The red ones are pretty easy to culture in tubs of leaves and vegetable peelings. I use them for med-size fish, marbled salamanders, and turtle hatchlings. I haven't tried them on Apistos, but everything else seems to enjoy them. "Red Wigglers" that I've bought from bait shops usually get spit back out after one bite. Not sure if its the species, or the commercial media they are grown in.

 

[aarhud]

Thanks Gerald!

The worms beside my house have yellow juice inside of them (I pulled one apart). Is there anyway for me to ID the worms? I fed them to my fish before, I had thought they ate them but later I found the worms on the bottom chewed up a little.

If I can't find L. rebullus then E. hortensis sounds like a good compromise.

 

[gerald]

Ought to be somebody in entomology or horticulture at Clemson who can help you key out the local species.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
"Aaron, those little soft-bodied red worms we have in NC/SC that are common in leaf litter and come out on roads and sidewalks after a heavy rain are great fish/herp food. I think they may be Lumbricus rubellus but I'm not sure."
Gerald, I think they could well be.

See if this is any help.
<http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Lumbricus_rubellus.html>.

cheers Darrel

 

[aarhud]

Maybe I can send out some emails and find out something. I graduated so I'm not in Clemson anymore.

Do you have a culture going now Gerald?

 

[gerald]

Darrel - that size and color description fits, but i suspect that's not quite enough detail for a positive ID. There's at least 3 or 4 "different-looking" small earthworms i see around the Raleigh-Durham area in NC. The red ones that seem to work best as fish/herp food are a bit more iridescent than the others, so L. rubellus might be it. Eisenia fetida is supposed to have dark & light rings, which I don't see on these. I wonder what those stiffer worms that thrash vigorously are?

"Identification: Adults can reach 60 to 150 mm in length and 4 to 6 mm wide. The back side is purplish or reddish-brown with an iridescent sheen, while the belly is pale in color."

Aaron - Not really a culture per se; I just dig them out of my compost bin (a large plant pot) where they coexist with with soldierfly and housefly grubs, various beetles, ants, sowbugs, centipedes, earwigs, etc. I'd be very surprised if they're not common in your area too. Look in leaf litter a day after a heavy rain. If you're coming up for the Raleigh fish auction (Sep 22, Sun) I can bring you some. Moina too if you want any. I think Juan, Julie and some other folks from Charlotte are coming.

 

[aarhud]

Gerald,

All my fish are in stock tanks at the moment, an auction would be too much to bear lol. I have no self discipline when it comes to fish. I'll do some worm hunting and see what I come up with.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The red ones that seem to work best as fish/herp food are a bit more iridescent than the others, so L. rubellus might be it.

The iridescence bit definitely sounds like Lumbricus rubellus, definitely dark red with a purple blue sheen. I don't know if it would help, but I've got a lot of plant pots on my patio, on slabs around the garden etc. and I've found that if you look underneath them (after a couple of wet days) 99% of the worms you find are L. rubellus. You need to grab them fairly quickly as they become very active as soon as the light hits them

I've just found this, it might help with a definitive ID, as it has locations for the clitellum and dorsal pores: <http://herronfarms.webs.com/apps/blog/show/5303782-identifying-different-kinds-of-worms>.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ted Leung]

Hey guys,

Ive just recently picked up a box of these fellas, as im trying to source a viable live food source for my cacs, other than mosquito larvae, BBS and RCS. Although Ive read through a few posts regarding how to differentiate which worms are the true "red wrigglers", im still quite skeptical as I don't think these are the Lumbricus rubellus but would like a second opinion if otherwise.

Ted

 

[gerald]

The distinct cross-bands make me think its Eisenia, but I dont know what other genera and species you might have in AU. My redworms do not have distinct bands. Do your fish eat these OK? Eisenia can be bad-tasting, but that might depend on what foods they're rasied on.

 

[Ted Leung]

I havnt fed these guys to my cacs yet, although, im hoping there is no harm to the fish if im chopping up tiny pieces and feeding manually to see a response. I'll let you know hopefully, (For australian residents, I purchased these worms from Bunnings, they came in a yellow box labelled Worm starter).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
They don't look like Eisenia fetida, the easiest way to tell are Eisenia spp. produce a yellow coelomic fluid when you cut them, the fluid smells a bit like garlic, and I assume it is why the fish won't eat them.

If they are palatable to the fish and aren't producing a lot of fluid when cut? I think they should be fine.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ted Leung]

Ok sweet thanks for the opinion guys. I'll keep you posted!

 

[gerald]

Here's my "redworms" tentatively suspected to be Lumbricus rubellus, from my yard in central NC. The biggest ones are only about 4 inches, and the clitellum develops (indicating maturity) around 2.5 inches.

Earthworm Species: Red worm (L. rubellus) vs Tiger/Brandling worm (Eisenia).
"Red Wriggler" common name is often applied to both species.
http://herronfarms.webs.com/apps/blog/show/39763184-identifying-different-kinds-of-worms