Which Teleocichla?

[Azur]

I purchased a (presumed) pair of Teleocichlas, but am unsure about their identity. They were sold as Teleocichla sp. Xingu 1, but don't look like the Xingu 1 pictured at Cichlid Press. Also I'd be interested in hearing if you agree that the presumed male is a male, and not just an undeveloped female.

Here's the presumed male in stress/aggressive coloration:
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/temp/idify/Teleocichla_male_agitated_DSC_1804.jpg

Same male in normal coloration:
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/temp/idify/Teleocichla_male_normal_DSC_1939.jpg
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/temp/idify/Teleocichla_male_normal_DSC_1943.jpg

Here's the female:
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/temp/idify/Teleocichla_female_DSC_1901.jpg

Both fish are roughly 5 cm, and so probably not fully grown. The male is quite aggressive, especially against the female, but also against all other fish in the aquarium. For some reason he seems to really dislike Corydoras catfish.

I don't know if it'll help, but I've collected some meristic data from my photos:
Dorsal finrays: 20 spines, 9 soft rays.
Pectoral finrays: 15 or 16.
Caudal rays: 16.
Anal rays: 13, out of which 4? are spines.
Ventral rays: 6?
Eye diameter is approximately 8% of standard length.
I have been unable to count scales.

 

[Mike Wise]

Compare your fish with T. monograma. T. sp. "Xingu I" is the name used by Schliewen & Stawikowski in 1989 for T. monogramma when it was first introduced to the hobby.

 

[Azur]

Well, the problem is finding something reliable to compare with.

Here on Apistogramma.com there are pictures of a fish called T. monogramma posted here:
http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=4443
They do look much like the photos of T. sp. Xingu at cichlid press, and a species I kept some years ago(pic1, pic2), which at the time were sold under the name T. gephyrogramma.

None of them really look like my fish at all - so provided those really are T. sp. Xingu I/T. monogramma I think we can rule out that possibility wrt my fish.

 

[Azur]

Just a quick update: my fish were eventually tentatively identified as Teleocichla cinderella.

 

[Mike Wise]

I would be very curious to know who identified these fish as T. cinderella. Your male shows no vertical rows of spots in the caudal find and shows a spot that extends into the base of the caudal fin. T. cinderella (based on my references) has an unspotted caudal fin and no spot in the base of the caudal fin.

I have been looking through my Teleocichla references and none seem to exactly match your species. T. monogramma comes the closest, but it doesn't usually show any caudal pattern and the snout is shorter than on your fish. I think that the closest your fish comes to is T. sp. Xingu I, which Uwe Werner - a well known expert on pikes & related genera - described as the "very small Teleocichla" (cf. monogramma).

This genus is not really one that I have much experience with, identificationwise, so I can't guarantee that I am correct.

 

[Azur]

Well, the identification is certainly anything but rock-solid.

If we assume that this is Teleocichla monogramma, and this is Teleocichla sp. Xingu, then they're indeed extremely similar, and sp Xingu probably identical to a species I kept some years ago (subdominant male, dominant but not fully grown male) then sold as Teleocichla gephyrogramma (which they definitely were not, as the males grew to 9 cm).

However, that is definitely not the same species as my most recent Teleocichla.

You'll note that the Xingu I & monogramma dominant males are either completely tan or irregularly patterened, without rectangular black spots along the flanks, has a small black dot behind the eye, and a row of black dots in the dorsal fin, which also has some blue speckling in the posteror part. Whereas my male had 8 rectangular black-and-blue spots along the side (except when agitated, when he instead have 8 blue rectangular spots), no speckling or dots in the dorsal, and a light band on the dorsal side of the caudal fin.
The only described Teleocichla known to me fitting that description is cinderella.

Now, maybe none of these fish are accurately identified; that is certainly completely possible, however I'd say it's a safe bet that whatever species mine is, it is not the same as the one here called monogramma, , or the XinguI at cichlid press, but might be the same species as the cinderella at cichlid press or possibly the centrarchus at cichlid press (although the female looks completely different from mine).

Or it's yet another undescribed species, which is perhaps even probably the case.

For the time being, though, I consider it different from Xingu I, and more similar to cinderella than to any other Teleocichla.