Which nijsseni-group species is this?

[lab]

I recently purchaced these two apistos, and I don't doubt that I have a male and a female. But which species is it?

I have an idea, but I'm keeping it to myself for now, so that your opinion won't be biased The male is around 4 cm and the female only af fraction shorter.

First af photo of the male in two different lightings:

The female in her best mood (they haven't bred yet). In neutral mood she carries a lateral stripe:

Thank you in advance,
Lars

 

[blueblue]

This fish is known as A. sp. "Inka II" (Aqualog) or A. sp. "Zwilling".
In Datz, it is pictured in A181. i acquired and bred one in 2004, and at that time, the trading name was Inka II.

 

[lab]

Thank you blueblue!
This makes some sense since the commercial name of the fish was Apistogramma "inka". This gave me the impression, however, that it was Apistogramma baenschi I was buying. It's from a czech breeder, by the way.
I thought that the caudal spot of A. sp. "zwilling" was larger than on my specimen, but beside that it's a nice match
I understand from DATZ that it is quite hard to breed. When your "zwilling" bred, what was the water's parameters (mainly pH)?

Lars

 

[blueblue]

Dear Lars, you are welcome. I luckily acquired a pair of this beauty and bred it after keeping for a month. The parameter is pH ~5.5-6.5, dark water (i add some Tetra's blackish water) and ADA substrate. It spawned quite naturally and easily.

At that time, this fish was called Inka II from the trader. Notice that the female fish of inka and inkaII are very different, while the male fish does look quite similar EXCEPT: for inkaII, the dorsal membranes won't be as extended as the inka. Plus, for inkaII, the coloration is pale sky blue, instead of metallic blue as what we could find in many inka.

By the way, for the name A. sp. Zwilling, there are at least two species being described under this name, i prefer to call inkaII as Zwilling, and another form A. sp. Oregon (some people put an equal sign between Zwilling and Oregon which i believe to be quite wrong).

Thank you blueblue!
This makes some sense since the commercial name of the fish was Apistogramma "inka". This gave me the impression, however, that it was Apistogramma baenschi I was buying. It's from a czech breeder, by the way.
I thought that the caudal spot of A. sp. "zwilling" was larger than on my specimen, but beside that it's a nice match
I understand from DATZ that it is quite hard to breed. When your "zwilling" bred, what was the water's parameters (mainly pH)?

Lars

 

[blueblue]

Some old photos that i took in 2004, and posted in a local forum
http://aquariumfarm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12891
for your reference

The male inka II:

The pair:

The fry:

 

[Rolo]

Hi,

NO!

Lars' pictures show A. sp. "Harlekin" (Harlequin)
and
Blueblue's pictures show A. sp. "Oregon"

best regards,
Rolo

 

[lab]

Hi Rolo.

Actually A. sp. "Harlekin" was my original guess. The only thing that puzzled me was the orange margin on the males tail fin, although it is quite pale...
The pictures I have seen of male A. sp. "Harlekin" does not show this feature. If anything they show a black coloration of the tail.
The thing that got me on this track was the female, which is in fine accordance with A. sp. "Harlekin". Sadly it was the only female of this species in the only shipment of it ever imported to Denmark, so I really hope to get these guys to spawn.
I should say that I have never seen any of these species alive before, because they are just beginning to be imported to denmark within the last few months, including Apistogramma baenschi that was just recently imported for the first time

 

[Rolo]

Actually A. sp. "Harlekin" was my original guess. The only thing that puzzled me was the orange margin on the males tail fin, although it is quite pale...

Ooops. I think, my guess was too fast *g*
You're right. I didn't saw the red seam on the second picture.

Sorry,
Rolo

 

[blueblue]

Hello Rolo and Lars: i just check, you could find from Aqualog's EXTRA - Apistogramma (by Dieter Bork, published in 2005), p. 39, S04033-4, the
Apistogramma sp. "Inka II". It is the fish i mentioned above and i kept (in 2004) before. At that time, i searched around on the web and also found that it was called A. sp. Zwilling. In Datz' book, it is pictured in p.82 and labelled as A181.

Later on, in 2005, there is another fish imported, it was called
A. sp. Oregon. In chinese, it is labelled as "Golden Panda" to show
its close relationship with Panda (A. nijsseni). This fish is pictured in
Datz, A182. I am keeping it and my old post of it could be found here.
http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=4002


"Inka II" and Oregon can be differentiated as follows,
1. Inka II's male has extended dorsal fin membranes (similar to A. panduro),
while Oregon's male has a flat dorsal fin membranes (similar to A. nijsseni).
2. Inka II's female has different black markings on the body,
compared to that of Oregon's female. Moreover, the Inka II's female, in the
shipments i saw, were cleaner (with less markings below the dorsal fin and cheek) compared to the Oregon's female.

 

[lab]

Hmmm.....
I still think that the caudal spot on my fish are not tall enough. Maybe I just have to wait and see until the fish hopefully spawn. The female should be a better indicator in breeding colours.
I hope it's not a cross I've got

Lars

 

[lab]

I just stumbled over a photo of an Apistogramma sp. "Harlekin" male in the original description of Apistogramma baenschi by Römer et al.
This article has previously been available on the net but unfortunately is not anymore.
This male actually shows what seem to be a faint orange seam in the tail fin like my male does. Is that at all possible, or is my imagination playing tricks with me? The suborbital line of this fish also angles of at the bottom in a similar fashion as it does on my fish and the caudal spot fits in nicely too.
I am quite sure that I have a match, the question is now if it is really an A. sp. "Harlekin" that is depicted in the article.
If anyone has the article it is photo no. 23 I think is my match.

 

[Mike Wise]

I agree. I believe that the male matches your fish quite closely. I, however, believe that the fish Uwe shows as " Apistogramma sp. „Harlekin†" is not A. sp. Harlequin. The caudal spot is completely wrong. Male Harlequins have a broad triangular spots, whose base is on the caudal peduncle and the apex (tip) is in the tail fin. The cheek stripe does not look quite right, either. Uwe's photo is the only one that I know about that shows the male with an orange outer caudal band. I personally think he has the wrong species pictured there. I think that it is a photo of A. sp. Zwilling/Twin. Uwe's photo of the female, however, does look like A. sp. Harlequin (compare the differences in the caudal spots).

 

[Mike Wise]

If anyone has the article it is photo no. 23 I think is my match.

For those (like me) who have the "Das Aquarium" magazine publication of the A. baenschi description, the photo on page 23 is a male A. baenschi. The photo that lab is describing is on the bottom of page 27.

 

[lab]

Thank you Mike.
I rest my case then, in confidence that I have "Zwilling/Twin" swimming around in my tank.
Although I bought the fish as A. baenschi, I am excited about having these fish that are not so commonly seen, as I understand it. They are probably also a bit more challenging breeding-wise than baenschi.
It's a bit ironic that I payed about 2/3 of the price I will have to pay for baenschi, but I guess you pay more for baenschi because it is more spectacular and more in demand. I am happy though