The difference between?

[coltiger]

Hi this is my first post here, I've been keeping fish since I was 12 Iam know 30...anyways right now I breed bettas (not of any importance here lol) but recently I've decided I wanna try my luck at dwarf cichlids mainly South Americans...

My question...I know there are three Rams but only two seem to be available at the LFS...ramirezi and altispinossa...I have a hard time finding out what are the key differences between them. The Bolivan seems to look bigger but is there a sure way to identify them?

I have two wild caught ramirezis as of right now, I plan on buying more

 

[Apisto ranch]

try reading this post all the way throu it will til you all you need to know on how to tell the sexs apart http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=26740 there's two pages to it and it wil show you how to tell the differnts between them.

 

[Mike Wise]

The Orinoco Ram (M. ramirezi) & the Bolivian Ram (M. altispinosus) look quite different in size, color, shape of the tail fin, & the markings on the body. Just compare pictures of them side by side & you can see the differences. The Bolivian Rams never have a blue body. The Orinoco Ram (other than the xantoristic yellow morph) always have blue on the flanks.

 

[coltiger]

Thank you

I've seen Bolivan Rams before but they were full grown and well the size and colour was an obvious way for me to tell the difference. I asked because I've seen Rams marked Bolivan but they were much smaller and harder to tell the difference...but saying that I did notice blue along the sides so I guess the LFS was trying to ripoff customers

 

[coltiger]

Another question...might sound dumb.

From what I've seen Bolivian Rams tend to be more aggressive than Ramirez...if I set up a 60 gallon tank is it okay to mix the two species? I don't intend to breed the Bolivian maybe just have one or two, mainly just a group of Ramirez.

Right now I have my female bettas in with the Rams and everything seems to be okay, actually the Rams seem to have helped the aggression between them. The female bettas are used for breeding. I was thinking of adding some Green Neons Paracheirodon simulans as a sort of dither fish.


For my 60 gallon setup

1 or 2 Bolivian Rams

4 or 5 Ramirez

6 female bettas

8 Paracheirodon simulans


Is this okay or is it too much, I don't really want bottom feeders but I might think about adding a couple of Brochis species.

 

[Apisto ranch]

I don't see anything wrong with that on my part anyway. The tank size is big enough to support them. I'd look into a botom feeder or clean up crew for the waste or left over food to help keep the bio load down some what.

 

[Mike Wise]

In a non-breeding situation, both Ram species should be OK as long as there are enough hiding places. I see no problem unless the Bolivian Rams eventually breed in the tank. Then, the other bottom dwellers will be in danger.

 

[coltiger]

So maybe I should just put one Bolivan to stop any breeding from happening...right? No chance of inter-breeding is there?

 

[Mike Wise]

I have never read of the 2 Ram species mentioned breeding together. It is much more likely that M. altispinosus will cross with M. sp. Zweifleck/Two-patch.

 

[coltiger]

I just got a couple of Bolivian Rams today, I saw them marked as Assorted Geophagus at Petcetera...a discount pet store. I placed them in with the same tank as the two Ramirez. it is only been a few hours but the two species don't seem to be having issues...although the two Bolivians have took the little Ramirez's little space of the tank...he is dominant over the larger Ramirez which I found odd cause it was the other way about in the tank they were in before.

 

[coltiger]

what a difference a day makes, the two Bolivians are now subject to tennis ball between the two Ramirez territories...Iam gonna rearrange everything.

I've kept Ramirez before with Kribs and they stayed away from them...I thought Bolivian Rams were alittle more aggressive...if after rearranging the tank nothing changes I will setup another just for the Bolivians

one of the Ramirez

one of the Bolivian's

Bolivian and Ramirez with a female betta tail lol

excuse the blurry pictures, Iam just trying to figure out how to take photos of fish.

 

[coltiger]

I know Bolivian Rams are difficult to sex, my pictures don't really do anything because they are on the move.

The two Bolivian Rams basically hang out, one has more red/orange on his/her stomach and has two spots on his/her sides and the other has less orange/red on his/her stomach and just one spot. There doesn't seem to be any bullying going on other than the Ramirez chasing them out of their territory.

One has what looks like a tiny egg tube, I know it is not the anus lol Is there a couple of ways to check how to sex them?

 

[cichlidacious]

nice pictures. How are the bolivian, ramirezi and betta getting along now?

 

[coltiger]

Everyone is getting along fine, the Ramirez are still the dominant fish in the tank.