Sexing Macmasteri

[JoBo]

Hello Folks,

I'm new around here. Check out my introduction Thread

I could use some help sexing my Macmasteri.

Both fish are about the same Size, 4cm.
They did not really grow much ever since i bought them three months ago. One of them got a higher/taller back/neck and more colourfull. But thats about all that changed. They were sold as Viejitas, but let's not discuss that. Lets just call them Macmasteri.

I will just go straight to the pictures.
Candidate #1 with the high back. He is the dominant one, most of the time chasing #2 away. He keeps staying next to a cave.Hard to get good pictures. Sometimes, the black line vanishes and he/she gets all orange.

Here he is next to candidate #2 (the left one)

candidate #2 looks more femaleish to me. He got a black dot on the chest:

and 2 more pics of candidate #2

The dominant #1 is getting more aggressive over time. When i bought them 3 months ago it was the other way round.

Any input is very much appreciated! Thanks!

 

[deliriouz]

I've got a breeding colony of about 30 macmasteri at the moment...#1 is male...#2 is possibly female but can't exclude a subdominant male. Looks like breeding size so any breeding display(ie belly dancing) from the 'female'?

 

[abrooks12376]

Side note... apistos and gbr require different temps. May not sound like a big deal.but it drastically effect the life cycle..

 

[JoBo]

I've got a breeding colony of about 30 macmasteri at the moment...#1 is male...#2 is possibly female but can't exclude a subdominant male. Looks like breeding size so any breeding display(ie belly dancing) from the 'female'?

Hey deliriouz, aka Kakashi Sensei ;-)

thank you very much for your input. Do u think the male will develope some more colour and longer fins? He doesn't look like any of the dominant males i usually see on the web or in books. Well, I hope he will just need some more time.

I uploaded a short video of the two fishes. That's how they behave most of the time. #2 always comes back to #1, just to get chased away, even though there is enough space in the tank for it to hide. Looks like it doesnt really care too much about being chased away.

Can u see anything interesting in that video?

When i bought them, #2 was the only fish in the tank that was protecting a cave. I assumed it could be female, as the females usually sit in the caves. But after i brought them home, it wouldn't sit in any cave any more. Now #1, the "male" sometimes sits in a cave.

Side note... apistos and gbr require different temps. May not sound like a big deal.but it drastically effect the life cycle..

Hey abrooks12376, thanks for your comment, too!

Ok, so what would be good temps for either of them?

I found 24-27 °C for Macmasteri and 26-32°C for the Rams. That Tank is around 26,5°C. A little low on the Ram side, but they do lay eggs regulary and look quite healthy to me. Though i put the Rams in another tank with 28-30°C when i want them to spawn.

As soon as I got a secured pair of Macs, i will get them their own tank, anyway. I just dont want to put 2 males in a smaller tank and have the weaker one of them suffer.

My Linke/Staeck says, gbr are found with apistos like hoignei and hongsloi in the same habitat. I assume u can't just say all apistos are incompatible with gbr then?

cheers,
Jobo

 

[deliriouz]

from the video thats not much loving to be seen. If you've not observed any of that behaviour in the last 3 months, I'd be worried you have got 2 of the same sex given they look adult size already. My macmasteri males have got long caudal and dorsal extensions so sexing is easy. Too bad Bavaria is a bit far away from us cause you'd be welcome to a pair of my macs. Will probably part with my colony in the near future to make way for another species. Definitely a nice beginner species thats not fussy with water conditions and easy to breed and raise.

PS: always good to meet another shippuden fan. I also collect some figurines - its a much cheaper hobby than fish keeping!

 

[JoBo]

Thanks for your reply deliriouz,

I will keep watching the fish for some more weeks, and see if anything changes.
Should i look out for a female at my local resellers?
The problem is: shortly after buying those two, i found a reseller that offers grown up Macs (labelled as "Viejitas"), but my fish look like neither male nor female of his. So i wouldnt even know what to buy...

The shopkeeper, where i bought my fish, didn't know about the sexes either, he just guessed they were all males. Maybe he was right after all.
I was in that shop again, he still got Macs/"Viejitas", but they look different now, by far not as colorfull, but rather grey. He still doesn't know about their sexes... And they really all look about the same. I can't spot any sexual differences on them.

And everywhere, people write that Macs are easy to sex... Yes, a grown up Mac male is really easy to sex, i guess.
But when I look at the pictures on the web, or even in my Linke/Staeck my fish dont look much like the common male Macs to me...
for example:

(source: http://www.scalare-fulda.de/)
really, my fish look rather like that female, but nothing like that male.
I've seen grown up Mac males in the other shop, they were almost as big as grown up Agassizii males.
My fish are rather the size of Agassizii females. Maybe a little stronger in shapes. But same length.

This is what i would say my #2 looks quite similiar to:

(source: http://www.scalare-fulda.de/)
The only difference i can spot: #2 has a few blue sparks on his cheek,
Are blue spots an indication for sex? I read, that some domesticated lines of Macs have blue spots on both genders, whereas the original mac, only has blue on the males...

This is such a pain. I am so damn curious about this! I wanna know for sure xD


off topic: Yeah shipuuden is great, too bad they have so much fillers lately... are u up to date with the anime? I hate waiting a week for a new episode, just to find out it's a filler again.
Over here it's not very common to collect figures, it's not even remotely common to watch those anime :-(

edit: Do u have a thread about your Mac colony somewhere here? Would love to see your tank and your fish!!!

 

[deliriouz]

There are quite a number of domesticated varieties of macmasteris so id on form alone can be difficult. Took photos of some of my macmasteris today...

Male
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/del1r1ouz/IMG_20150406_090923_zps74ptql48.jpg[ /IMG]

Female
[IMG]http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/del1r1ouz/IMG_20150406_090807_zpspzsrongf.jpg

Female in breeding dress

If you are dead keen on breeding and you got a good relationship with the lfs that has a definite pair, trade yours in for the pair.

 

[JoBo]

Thanks for your input and thanks for the Pictures!

Looking at your male, i'd say mine are either too young or females. Or plain ugly males...
And going by the colour of your female, they rather look like females to me. That yellow/orange base colour.
Because all Mac Males i found, have a grey/silver base with some red on it. But my have an orange/yellow base, like most of the females?

Also there are no signs of them growing any long fins at all.
I bought them more than 3 months ago, and they have grown only about half a cm, if they grew at all. It's hard to tell.
Males should get bigger than 4cm i guess.

Too bad the lfs around here usually wont take back any fish. especially not after 3 month.
Watching the mating and breeding is one of the best things about cichlids. So i would really prefer having a pair.

But i will give them some more weeks or months, to check out if anything changes about them. If they won't grow any long fins on the back, chest or anal fin, i might try getting a grown up male and see what's going to happen.
Although that might just be some gambling, i really wouldn't know what else I could do. Though having 3 males would really bother me as well

 

[ErtyJr]

To my eyes it looks like 2 females to me. But I'm rather uncertain on that.

 

[JoBo]

Hello ErtyJr,

thanks for that reply. Assuming they were allready grownups (I don't know how old they are) I would agree with you.
Neither of them looks like an adult male. Neither behaves like and adult male.
Furthermore, if they both were males i'd assume they would fight much more. And each of them would probably take a territory of his own.
But they kinda stay together, that's strange.

And even two females should split up and search for their own territories... i really don't know about those two
Either way they are probably the same gender i guess. They look just too similiar!