Sexing Apistogramma Cacatuoides / breeding advice

[hexy]

Hi All,

I have been trying to breed a trio of apistogramma cacatuoides and was hoping the experts here could help with some advice on how to encourage breeding but also in identifying I actually have 1 male and 2 females!

Below are pictures of the fish, tank has 3 caves and a dark sand substrate with plastic plants throughout. Temperature of 74F, with some alder cones etc to taint water.

Below are pictures of the 3 fish:

Female 1?

Male

Female 2?

I really appreciate any help

Thanks
hexy

 

[Mike Wise]

Well, female 1 is a female. I can't say what sex female 2 is. The photos aren't good enough. Personally I think you really need to raise the temperature to around 78-80°F. It also seems that you don't have enough caves/decorations. You should have at least 4-6 caves for the 3 fish. Each fish should have a territory with set boundaries. There should be many places that aren't visible from the other side of the tank. Other than that, neutral to slightly acidic water that's moderately hard to soft, frequent water changes, and quality food is what should get them to breed. Good luck.

 

[RustedKnight]

Female #2 looks very similar to my Young Male juvi's when they get stressed (rising aggression levels before I moved them into a larger growout tank).

But as Mike says (and he is vastly more knowledgable than I) need a clearer photo of Female #2.

 

[hexy]

Thank you for comments.

I have changed as you advised (caves, plants and temp), and have some more pictures below. My tank is 60 litres (60cm long) is this ok for 1 male and 2 females or should I just have 1 of each? The male is starting to chase the smaller female however the larger female seems to be the boss. However still, none of the fish seem to hide-out in any of the caves??

More photos of female 2.

Is the lay-out of my tank potentially not right? I also have a fluval 2 filter which may be too powerful? Should I drop this?

Thanks, hexy

 

[Mike Wise]

A 60x30cm tank is about the minimum size for a trio of A. cacatuoides. It can be too small. It really depends on the design of the bottom decor. Based on your new photos, I believe that the fish is still a juvenile. It is very possible that it is a young male. The 3rd dorsal spine appears to be growing longer and the ventral fins show very little black. This, however, can vary in domestic color strains of A. cacatuoides.

 

[hexy]

Thank you Mike.

I think I may move the juvenile out of this tank then, I can see what you mean with the 3rd dorsal. What are your thoughts on the filter?

Also it seems to be very 'crowed' with caves and plants, is this better or should I have an open swimming area?

Thanks

 

[Melanochromis]

Hi,

If I have a spare tank, I'd properly put that "female 2" in it.
Just to see if it'd turn into a male or not.
A sneaker male can remain a sneaker for a very long time if there's a large, dominant male in the same tank.
That happened to me before.

Thank you Mike.

I think I may move the juvenile out of this tank then, I can see what you mean with the 3rd dorsal. What are your thoughts on the filter?

Also it seems to be very 'crowed' with caves and plants, is this better or should I have an open swimming area?

Thanks

I don't think it's bad to have a tank with a lot of caves and plants, unless it's too much that you can't see the fish at all.
I think the fish will appreciate caves more than open swimming area.

 

[Mike Wise]

Well, this isn't my personal preference, but should be OK. I have some internal canister filter, but don't use them. They are more time consuming to clean and require more energy to operate than my preference, an air driven sponge filter. I once lost about 70 Krib (Pv. pulcher) fry when they got trapped in a high flow filter. I doubt that this can happen as easily with the newer internal power canisters. The Fluval 2 puts out 400 l/hr which is more than enough flow. I personally think that this is too much flow for most apistos, especially for fry. I'd adjust the flow rate to about half. You really don't need a lot of filtration in a 60 litre tank with only 2 or 3 fish. When you have fry, the more frequent water changes should be adequate. Like I said, my preference is air driven sponge filters - easy to clean, easy to sterilize, cheap to run. I still use some that were made in the late 70s.

 

[hexy]

I have now changed to a sponge filter and already notice the fish swimming around more freely and less cautiously.

I changed the gold male to a new male from my LFS as I think the gold cac was still a little junior - what are your thoughts?

Fish 1

Also any ideas on whether this is male or female:

Fish 2

Also picked out a few pictures of some from my main tank and wondered your thoughts as I had also bought some athulpa fry before and now finding it hard to distuingish the females:

Fish 3

 

[Apistomaster]

I seem to have better results when I breed A. cacatuoides as a pair rather than trios.
I had one pair produce 174 fry in only a 10 gal breeding tank but eventually both parents helped take care of the fry but I had to spread them out to a couple 40 breeders to finish raising them to a sexable size.
I don't know if is just a lack of luck but it seems like over the years and as we get more strains of A. cacatuoides, many pairs don't spawn.
I used to set up three or four pairs in their own 10 gal tank and three or four spawns were present within 48 hours.
In more recent years I either have no spawns of a large ones. Not much middle ground. It has made me rethink my position when it comes to recommending a good beginner's Apisto species.

 

[hexy]

Thank you Apistogramma. That is interesting feedback.

I have taken one of the 'females' out now and have kept just a pair of certain male and female in their. The female had been guarding her cave for quite a while and is yellow in colour however she has now come out of her cave and is swimming around normally again....

Is it possible she had laid eggs but ate them? Or why else has she left the once protected cave?

I have put a neon in the tank too as read a distracting fish is useful?

Any other tips?

Thanks

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes, it it very possible that the female ate her eggs. It is common for the first spawn or 2. Reproduction takes practice!

Personally, I feel very sorry for your 1 neon. This is a species that needs a school of its own species to feel well. A lone specimen is a very stressed specimen - especially if there are much larger fish in its tank. Stress can lead to a lowered immune system and increased possibility for disease. I prefer pencilfish as 'dither/target' fish, but other species that don't need a school of their own work well, too.

 

[hexy]

Thanks Mike. I have moved the neon back with its shoal in my community tank now.

How often do Apistogramma Cacatuoides spawn? Will keep pampering them to hopefully spur them on again.... It is just the pair in the tank to themselves now, a 60 litres that is 3/4 full (not sure why but someone said they prefer it lower) and have added alder cones and some oak leaves with plenty of caves. Temperature is at around 78f.

Are they other factors I should consider?

 

[Mike Wise]

I think that you are 'on the right track'. Just good quality food, good tank maintenance, and clean water - and patience - are all that you need. Apistos can spawn every 10 - 14 days if they lose a spawn and are properly conditioned.

 

[Apistomaster]

A. cacatuoides do not need alder cones or any other simulated black water. They originate from water with a pH nearly or above 7.0 and with a higher conductivity than many other Apistos.

 

[Mike Wise]

True, A. cacatuoides don't need extreme conditions. TomC, Julio Melgar, & I, however, collected the species in Colombia in waters with a pH of 5.5 and ~35µS/cm. The species is very adaptable.

 

[hexy]

That is interesting thank you both. I'll make sure I keep changing the water.

Do either of you, or others, have any photos/pictures of breeding tank setups? Or even normal set-ups for apistogramma? Would be very interested to see and help me on my new larger tank project!

Thanks

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Do either of you, or others, have any photos/pictures of breeding tank setups? Or even normal set-ups for apistogramma? Would be very interested to see and help me on my new larger tank project!

Have a look at Bob Wiltshire's (ApistoBob) Web site. It has really useful advice for habitat, water etc. and Bob's practical experience of keeping many dwarf cichlids. <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php>, the "Aquarium Care" section is particularly useful <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Aquarium_care.php>. If you have a look at "Good Habitat" it has some tank set-ups.

Other than that if you have some spare time just read all Mike W's posts, he really is the man who knows (it all).

If you really have a lot of time, read through his posts on "the Krib" <http://www.thekrib.com/> as well.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

... read all Mike W's posts, he really is the man who knows (it all).

Yeh, Darrel, right. You know, my wife says the same thing, but for some reason I don't think she means it in the same way!