Novice breeder planning on breeding apisto's

[tenohfive]

Hi, I've posted a couple of times on here as I've recently bought my first apisto pair. I've kept coldwater and tropical fish for a few years but haven't tried my hand at breeding, but I've now got the space that I can afford a seperate breeding tank.

I've got some vague plans that will hopefully take better shape with some help from people on here.

I'm trying to source a reasonable sized tank that I can divide into for what will probably be 2 different types of apisto. I'm trying to get either a 3 or 4 foot tank (so anywhere from 90L to 145L in all probability.) If I were to get a 90L tank I was planning on dividing it in half with a species in each, medium planting (with a fair bit of floating planting) with bogwood, oak leaves (hard water area) and caves/plant pots for spawning. I'd use a seperate pair of 5G tanks for initial grow out, then around the 4 month mark move fry them to a 15G seperate tank.

If I were able to find a suitable 4ft tank I've a bit more flexibility. I'm open to advice as to whether I should divide it in half with a species in each or divide in 3, with 3 species or divide in 3 with 2 species and the third section as an initial grow out area. I think I may be being greedy in considering 3 species in that space, if so please tell me so.

Does this sound like I'm going along the right lines? And is there anything else that I need to know? I will be doing more research before I start anything but I thought I'd pop a post up to find out if I'm starting along the right lines.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Mike Wise]

It really depends on the species you want to breed and how the tank is decorated. Breeding apistos eventually needs more than 1 tank. Instead of 2 species, have you thought of 1 species in a tank large enough for 2 females to have broods with enough room to get them to a size where they can get to over 1" long?

 

[tenohfive]

I was provisionally planning on removing the egg's to a grow out tank - would it be better leaving them in with the parents? I'm thinking the main tank divided into two trio's of the same species might be an option. As to what species, I'm open to advice on that front. I'm UK based and would like to breed something that will be easy to sell on - I'm not doing it for profit, but I don't want to be swimming in fry either. Any suggestions on that front?

I'm thinking about getting a 25G tank to go underneath the main tank, divided up in two for the two different sets of eggs. When young I was thinking to keep the tank level low (about half full) so the fry find it easier to get food. As they grow I could up the levels around the 4 month mark to full capacity.

How does that sound? I'm a complete novice to this, so am very open to persuasion - especially if I've missed a fundamental point.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Tenohfive, I'd go with Mike's suggestion. Harems are much more interesting to watch and if you let the fry grow out with the mother you get all sorts of interesting interactions between the different ages of fish. You don't get as many fry surviving to maturity, but that is not necessarily a disadvantage.

Soft water dwarf cichlids are a bit of a minority interest in the UK, to obtain fish you are reliant on buying the species which are widely commercially available - Probably only the red morphs of A. cacatuoides & A. agassizii and A. "blue-steel" in most areas and even then only in better shops. Other species are sometimes available. In the Bristol/Bath/Swindon area I've seen the red morphs of A. hongsloi & A. mcmasteri, A. trifasciata, A. nijsseni and both colour morphs of A. borellii. The A. trifasciata and A. "blue-steel" have been all males, other than one time there were both sexes (of "blue-steel"). Additionally the names on the fish have often been wrong.

The other approach is to buy from an enthusiast, a lot of the leading figures in the UK are on this forum - "Microman" and "Steve12000" come to mind, and they are breeding many species that would not be in the UK hobby if they stopped. Apistogramma baenschi for example is a more specialist fish that is potentially both breedable and saleable.

Unless you are willing to post fish, or have a local outlet specialising in more unusual fish, your best bet is to breed a red colour form of A. cacatuoides, A. agassizii or possibly A. hongsloi. I'm not sure why, but red fish are much more likely to be bought by the casual purchaser, who is realistically most likely to buy "your" fish in the LFS.

The other thing to bear in mind is that you often get very unbalanced sex ratios in fry, and the reason is not always easily apparent, although with A. cacatuoides it certainly seems to be temperature related, rather than a pH issue. You may also find that you flood the local market fairly quickly. Hope that helps.

cheers Darrel.

 

[tenohfive]

Thanks for the advice. I was considering buying from an apisto breeder, and I would be willing to get postage sorted (especially during the summer months.) I'm a member of another forum with a pretty large UK base, and I was planning on selling them on through there.

As for seperating the eggs or not, from here and aforementioned other forums I've come to this conclusion - am I right:

1. Keep the eggs and fry in for a more interesting tank with a lower survival ratio.
2. Seperate the egg's for a higher number of eggs as the parents will spawn again sooner, and a higher number of fry.

If I have, I'd be inclined to go with the first option as whilst I'm hoping I can cover some costs by selling a few, I'm doing this because I love watching them first and foremost and because its something new.

How long would I be looking at between spawning and having the fish at a saleable age? And how many would be likely to survive over that time? I'm just trying to work out space requirements.

I'll look up the more specialist species you've mentioned. Ideally something which would interest apisto enthusiasts but is attractive and would be happy in a community aquarium would be ideal (not at my end, to open my options when it comes to rehoming the babies.) If anything sounds ideal on that front please let me know.

Thanks again for the advice, I'm slowly getting my head round the whole idea.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Tenofive wrote:
"How long would I be looking at between spawning and having the fish at a saleable age? And how many would be likely to survive over that time? I'm just trying to work out space requirements. I'll look up the more specialist species you've mentioned. Ideally something which would interest apisto enthusiasts but is attractive and would be happy in a community aquarium would be ideal (not at my end, to open my options when it comes to rehoming the babies.) If anything sounds ideal on that front please let me know."

Growth rate and which species fulfil your requirements is largely going to depend on the qualities of your water.

A. cacatuoides is easy to breed, easy to sell, relatively placid and grows quite quickly (mine have a varied diet with a lot of live food). It also doesn't make to many demands on your water quality, as it tolerates pH's well above 7, and successfully breeds in water of quite high hardness - at least 400 microS in my experience. I keep lightly stocked tanks with lots of filtration, water changes and plants, so I can't pass any comment on their tolerance of nitrates.

After that the other species have at least one more constraint, A. "Blue-steel" is relatively aggressive, A. borellii is slower growing, A. agassizii requires water with lower pH and conductivity than A. cacatuoides etc.

Have a look at "Apistobobs" web pages, the're great and he has experience of keeping and breeding many species. <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/>

I'd ask the person you get your fish from for advice, and in the UK I'd certainly start with Steve or Mark.

cheers Darrel

 

[tenohfive]

It really depends on the species you want to breed and how the tank is decorated. Breeding apistos eventually needs more than 1 tank. Instead of 2 species, have you thought of 1 species in a tank large enough for 2 females to have broods with enough room to get them to a size where they can get to over 1" long?

Forgot to ask, if I were to go with cacatuoides what sort of size tank would this be?

 

[Apistomaster]

I recommend A. trifasciata because the are easy, fast growing and colorful.
I don't think selling them would be difficult. A. borelli are perennial favorites but they do seem to be a relatively slow growing species.
I no longer recommend A. cacatuoides as the best beginner's species despite their popularity. They seem to be getting more difficult to breed easily as more morphs have been developed but YMMV.

 

[exotic_idiot]

I would recommend that you get a pair or trio "1male/2females" which the price you're comfortable with... Since you are trying out breeding instead of making profit so doesn't really matter...

Apistogramma trifasciata is easy to breed and look after.. Young healthy adults which is around 3cm lenght are breedable and sexable already.