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Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by Shane Puthuparambil, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Member

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    Sold as Apistogramma sp. Totoya...

    Purchased from WetSpot

    IMG_3897.JPG IMG_3911.JPG IMG_3923.JPG IMG_3927.JPG
  2. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Member

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    Looking for an ID
  3. dw1305

    dw1305 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi all,
    With the usual disclaimer, I'll set the ball rolling. I think they are somewhere close to A. ortegai, due to the the contiguous distal bar and caudal spot on the female.

    cheers Darrel
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  4. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    Like Darrel I think it is most likely a species from the eunotus group but there are many. In my tanks female ortegai have a large peduncle spot but you can still clearly see there are two spots fused together, rather than one big spot as your females show. Also the males don't have the strong black membranes at the start of the dorsal fin. One of my books shows a male A. sp. Putumayo A85, which is a close relative of ortegai, that has black anterior dorsal and a horizontally split caudal peduncle spot. But they don't show a female.
    At the moment your fish are rather pale and may show more colour to help with ID once they settle in. It could also help to make the tank a bit darker by adding oak or other tank-safe leafs and some floating plants to cast some shadows on your very bright white substrate.
    Shane Puthuparambil likes this.
  5. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    Actually, A. sp. Putumayo has been discussed here before and the following by Mike Wise is informative:

    "As far as I know A. sp. Pebas and A. sp. Putumayo are two different, but related, species. A. sp. Pebas has a double caudal spot while A. sp. Putumayo has the more typical single caudal spot (this is more easily seen on females). There are other features that differentiate them, but this is the most easily seen. A. sp. Pebas is only found in the lower RÃo Ampiyacu. A. sp. Putumayo is found in the m-u RÃo Ampiyacu and RÃo Algodon (Putumayo system)."

    For the full thread go to http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/apistogramma-sp-putumayo.9356/
    dw1305 and Shane Puthuparambil like this.
  6. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Member

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    Hi Bart,

    I added those things today.... I had run out as I used nearly 200 leaves for a dicrossus tank lol.

    I am waiting for them to settle in before I take a few more photos.

    I will keep you posted.

    Any idea as to why there were labled Totoya? It is impossible for me to find the location after looking, since the name is similar with Toyota (automotive).
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  7. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Member

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    Hope these are better lol IMG_3955.JPG IMG_3966.JPG IMG_3976.JPG IMG_3988.JPG IMG_3991.JPG
  8. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    Totoya in Maijuna language means "muddy water" and refers to the water colour of Rio Algodon on which banks the village San Pablo the Totolla (same as San Pablo the Totoya) is located. There is an Apistogramma sp. Algodon (I and II, I believe) that are part of this species complex. The Algodon is also just South of Rio Putumayo, so could support the A. sp. Putumayo ID. The image below shows the location of Totoya about in the center of the image.

    Totoya.jpeg
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  9. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    There is an Apistogramma sp. Orangestreifen (A81) that is related and has orange stripes on its abdomen below the lateral band. In the one image I've seen it isn't quite identical to yours but it is a feature that has been seen before.
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  10. Shane

    Shane New Member

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    Bart,you are a genius....thanks for the info
  11. Shane

    Shane New Member

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    Lol....I think I have two accounts.

    More pics:
    (aggressive mood)
    IMG_4032.JPG IMG_4035.JPG IMG_4040.JPG IMG_4042.JPG IMG_4034.JPG
  12. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Looks like a new eunotus-complex species, closely related to A. ortegai, to me, too. I don't recall seeing anything quite like it before.
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  13. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Member

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    I am really starting to enjoy these guys.... this male is particularly rambunctious...
    IMG_4287-min.JPG IMG_4305-min.JPG
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  14. Tom C

    Tom C Active Member 5 Year Member

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    These were collected by a fisherman friend in Peru at the end of June, this year.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    They seem to be the same species as you have, Shane.
    They were collected between the village (San Antonio del) Estrecho (Rio Putumayo), and Totoya (Rio Algodon), cloeser to the latter.
    So this confirm the collecting location.

    Just a little bit north, in the surroundings of Estrecho, they collected the A. sp. "Putumayo" (which I have collected there too).

    [​IMG]

    The relationship should be clear, but compared to the A. sp. "Totoya", the abdominal stripes are clearly different.
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  15. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    In addition to the difference in abdominal stripes, the sp. 'Totoya' has a prominent yellowish tail, like A. ortegai and relatives. Less so in the sp. 'Putumayo' images, but perhaps would appear in unstressed animals. I also can't help but see similarities to A. rubrolineata include the 'vertically double' (colon-like) caudal spots. Not implying these fish are A. rubrolineata, it's distribution is much further South, but I wonder about its affinities.
  16. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Member

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    Thanks for the input guys! It really helps!

    So, how should I refer to the fish? Is there a specific name that it should be called?

    Shane
  17. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    Since this doesn't seem to match a species with an established name I'd keep the sp. 'Totoya' trade name suggested by Wetspot who probably got it shipped under that name from their Peruvian exporter. It also indicates location which can be helpful.
  18. ButtNekkid

    ButtNekkid Active Member

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    Hi,

    What is the meaning of "sp." when speaking of apistos?
    Does it mean species?
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  19. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

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    A valid scientific name consists of a genus name (e.g. Apistogramma) and the species name (e.g. agassizii). When a specimen is an undescribed species (or when the author simply could not identify it to the species level) they use "Apistogramma sp." to indicate it is a species within that genus. For apistos we have many undescribed species and many are distinct and well-known. It would not be helpful if all of them were just labeled Apistogramma sp. So the 'Totoya', 'Abacaxis' etc are added to make it clear which undescribed apisto it is. I don't know if there are official rules for these names but I think one goal is to pick a name that is not easily misinterpreted as a valid scientific. For instance Abacaxis is preferred over the also-used Wilhelmi because the latter sounds like a latin name. I believe it is also customary to capitalize the word and put it in quotes to stress that it is not a valid scientific name. Finally, it is recommended not to use a name that can be easily confused with an existing valid name. So if Apistogramma totoyaensis had already been a valid species, then they should have picked something different than 'Totoya'.
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  20. gerald

    gerald Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Also you'll sometimes see a genus name followed by "sp. aff." and then a species name. That usually means it's a scientifically undescribed species that is related to an already described species, such as Apistogramma sp. aff. cacatuoides.
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