How to distinguish female A. allpahuayo from A. cacatuoides?

[aarhud]

What are the key differences between female A. allpahuayo and A. cacatuoides?

 

[Mike Wise]

The caudal spot on A. alpahuayo is distinctly separated from the lateral band. On A. cacatuoides the lateral band is continuous into the base of the caudal fin. It does pinch and swell in the caudal peduncle, but it is continuous.

 

[aarhud]

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[aarhud]

Either of those pictures useful? I can get better photos when they come out of the pond.


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[Frank Hättich]

to me your fish look like A. bitaeniata or something closely related.

 

[Mike Wise]

Neither photo is good enough to identify the species. One thing is for certain, it is not A. alpahuayo.

 

[aarhud]

Uh oh.

I'll pull the fish from the pond and take some better pictures when I get a chance. Hopefully we can figure out what they are.

 

[aarhud]

 

[aarhud]

 

[aarhud]

I just pulled them from the pond. So they are super stressed. What other kind of shots do you guys need? Unstressed?

Here is a video:

 

[aarhud]

to me your fish look like A. bitaeniata or something closely related.

I think you are correct.

 

[aarhud]

Is the video and photography that terrible lol?

 

[Mike Wise]

Sadly, for me it's not good enough for a positive ID. What are you using for your photos?

 

[aarhud]

Unfortunately I only have an Iphone. I can try my wifes phone, it has a better camera. Do you need the fish stressed for the photographs?

Do the fish look like A. bitaeniata to you Mike?

 

[Mike Wise]

IMO (biased, of course), smart phones are 'a jack of all trades - and a master of none' - not even as phones. Even an inexpensive point & shoot camera usually gives better close-focus photos. I find video captures usually aren't good enough for ID purposes, either (too often the fish are too small, out of focus and moving too fast). It's best if the fish fills most of the frame. Ideally, for ID purposes, the fish should be oriented perpendicular (broadside) to the lens with the both eye and caudal fin in focus. Dark markings on the body and shape of the fins are important for identification, so fish that show high aggression (females) or stress pattern (both sexes) are preferred. It's uncommon to see both fin shape and dark markings on the same picture, so 2 - 4 different photos of fish in different moods really helps.

Yes, the fish could be A. bitaeniata, but it could belong to several other species, too.

 

[aarhud]

I'll see what I can do Mike. Stay tuned.

 

[aarhud]

These should be much better. I can keep trying if the photos are not clear enough for a proper ID.
https://goo.gl/photos/MtKNZ8qiXCo8zRfq6

Can you view the pictures on google +? Photobucket is becoming annoying with popups and ads. I need to find a new image hosting website.

 

[aarhud]

Just in case that link does not work:
https://goo.gl/photos/MtKNZ8qiXCo8zRfq6

 

[Mike Wise]

They are definitely species in the bitaeniata-group. They probably are A. bitaeniata, but one rarely sees a second abdominal stripe on the flanks, just the lateral band and 1 abdominal stripe. The male hasn't produce elongated anterior dorsal rays either. Maybe he is still young, I don't know.

 

[aarhud]

Thank you Mike! At least we have it narrowed down. So are you saying I do have a male? I thought all four fish females. If I do indeed have mixed sexes, that makes me more comfortable.

My camera died so I stopped my photo shoot yesterday. I got the hang of the camera near the end, so I can produce more pictures if that will help. You were right, the 3 year old point did a far better job than the new Iphone. Putting the fish in my specimen container with a desk lamp overhead made for some decent shots once I had the camera set correctly.

Edited to add:
The fish are still young, but should be on the verge of sexual maturity. I purchased them in February.