Babies, babies, babies

[n25philly]

Hi everyone, how are you doing? I'm new here (first post) but not new to Apistos. I am new to their breeding, or at least successful breeding. It's actually been a crazy week as all my fish decided to breed at once. I had one group of bolvian ram eggs and two groups of cacatoiudes eggs hatch in around a 12 hour period (fortunately not all in the same tank.

Anyway, the apistos decided to start breeding one week after I got them and both females (I have a trio) apparently got ready to breed at the same exact time. One laid her eggs on the outside of one of the caves while the other laid her somewhere around the driftwood at the other end of the tank and I didn't even realize that she even had eggs until I saw her corralling wigglers. Everything hatched yesterday afternoon.

It seems to be a story of two different moms though. The one that laid them by the cave seems to be a very good mom for a first timer. She's been very diligent watching over them and no one including her has seemed to have eaten any. Then again she picked a good spot as I think she is the only fish in the tank that actually knows that they are there. How active should the fry be at the pre-free swimming stage. They are definitely alive as there is movement, but there is very little. When I look at them they almost look like eggs as none are moving and then I will see a few wiggle around here and there. I ask because with the ram fry, the mom plopped them all right down in front of the glass so I was able to get a good look at them with no obstruction and they were all very actively wiggling.

The other mom I think needs practice. She moved all the fry into the substrate out into the open. The tank is very heavily planted and has a decent amount of carpeting so even from the beginning it was really hard to see the fry. I think they've all been eaten. I'm pretty sure I saw the male eating some yesterday and today the female is still hanging out in the area but doesn't seem to be watching over anything and I see no movement on the substrate in that area. Not sure exactly what happened though.

I have a big bag of baby brine shimp eggs, a hatchery and frozen baby bine shrimp for feeding. Will that be enough or should I get something more or some variety in food?

The tank is a 20 gallon and at work so I don't really have the ability to set up another tank for the babies and kind of want the parents to do their job and raise them. (with my help of course) I'm not looking to be a breeder, so I don't need every single one to survive. The tank is understocked and overplanted. The group that hasn't been eaten is actually placed on an indian almond leaf, so they will have the micro organisms to feed on there when they are ready as well. Am I on the right track here? Anything else I should be doing? All help will be greatly appreciated! Sorry this was a little long

 

[MickeM]

Hi.. and welcome !!

Often you can not see the Apisto-"wigglers" at all (if being kept in caves).. but they normaly do not move as fast as the Ram-wigglers from what I remember..
Rams often have a shorter developing time from egg to fry..so maybe that`s also why they are/seem more active as wigglers..?

Breeders of Rams that I know have more success with older pairs.. They may not know how to behave as 1st-timers !!(Often the males!,
Maybe let them spawn 4-5 times before you give up/ change any of the partners!!??)
Keep on feeding them OK so the female doesn`t get thinner over time..Most of female input-energy/food will go to the production of new eggs, while the male just gets bigger and bigger .. and stronger+ more dominant..
If she will have to lay eggs too soon every new spawn.. the larger is the risk for her to finally be "unusable" in the bonding couple..
..sometimes intensive courting by males can lead to stop of spawnings.. since the female then is not ready "physically" again..
It may also be due to the male taking over the "feeding-zone"..
If this occur I would try to tactically feed more food directly to the females.. if spawning is your priority!!
One good tip is to thaw froozen food in a cup and then poor it in ..in different places..
In that way you can trick/fool the male to go to one corner when you start feeding, and then you feed a lot more to the female in another part of the tank!!

Baby Brine Shrimps should be enough as xtra food . Fry often find other types of micro-sized food in a planted tank.
Just keep an eye on their stomachs and you will know/see..
If you want another alternative.. Cultivating Microworms is an easy option.!!

(BTW.. if you have got wigglers you are really on the right track!!, Eggs may not develope at all if the water is of bad quality..!
... and also .. Funny+awesome avatar-pic!!)

/Micke

 

[n25philly]

Thank you for the reply. I was a little surprised by the apistos and I have two caves in their tank and neither of them used them. I actually barely noticed there were any eggs due to it as I was waiting to see them guard the caves as a sign they laid eggs.

I have been totally surprised by the rams. I had no intention of breeding them. They are in a well stocked community tank and the mom doesn't look like a first timer. She had a little trouble when they first hatched as it was a little much for her to transfer the wigglers from the stone to the substrate and fend off the cory cats. I started to video with my phone when I saw them hatching and it took maybe 10-15 seconds for the corrys to come and start eating. Fortunately she was dilligent in sucking up the fry and a few well places shrimp pellets distracted the corys long enough to finish the job. She's still guarding some although I can't tell how many since she moved them to an obstructed spot. I honestly thought they would all be gone by now. The male is in the dog house. Despite a brief period this morning where they took turns guarding the fry she's been pissed at him and will viciously attack him if he even comes close (you ruined my body!)

I'm hoping that will all the plans, moss, etc there will be food for them, especially in the apisto tank as it's at my office at work so I don't know if I can be there all the time to feed them. There is also leaf litter and alder cones in that one as well.

 

[MickeM]

OK..
Maybe the active cory cats or any caves with large entries(?) are the reason for placing the eggs/wigglers on/in an open position ???
(Nature can act strange sometimes!! )
I use clean coco-caves and almost totally press them toward the sand.. Females often dig up a wall of sand in front of the entry anyway!!

I am sure that the fry will find some things to eat..
I`ve sometimes kept Apisto-fry in planted tanks for more than 3 weeks without adding any xtra fry-food at all..

 

[n25philly]

First time parent I guess. There is a coconut cave less then an inch away on the other side of the rock she laid her eggs on. I read that rams like to put the fry into ditches dug in the sand. She seems to have things under control at the moment. I highly doubt they will survive once they are free swimming though, too many quick and hungry fish around. Any survivors will just be a nice bonus.

 

[MickeM]

OK..
I thought it were the Apistos who placed/layed the eggs outside a cave..
Maybe I am getting too tired over here.. 04.38 in the morning.. Time to sleep!!

 

[n25philly]

No you are right, I thought we were talking about the rams. I don't know why the apistos didn't use the caves. At least with the one that ended up putting them out in the open I think the eggs were actually placed on the bottom of driftwood. It's a piece of spiderwood and the bottom is kind of cave like. The other one I don't know why she laid them on the outside of the cave, but it's working, so I guess its fine.

 

[n25philly]

These were the eggs before they hatched. I think the females didn't use the caves because they are too close to each other. I will try moving the other cave to the other side of the tank for any future breeding attempts.