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Questions: Setting up new 10 gallon

WendyKL

New Member
Messages
10
Hi all,
I have a series of questions - looking forward to your answers.

1) How many apistos will work well in a 10 gallon? Do I try for a pair (who may potentially breed) or should I just have a couple of males? Or should I just go with one male and some appropriate dither fish?

2) Best substrate? I presently have a 20 gallon long planted (low tech) - community tank (no apistos in this tank) - with black flourite sand. Not thrilled with the sand (hard to clean) but I'll do sand if necessary (in the new 10 gallon) for apisto's health and well being.

3) Oak leaves? How many - do I keep the leaves whole or crumble them up?

4) What wood (if any) will work for driftwood - (driftwood at LFS is VERY pricey).

5) If I do not end up with a (breeding) pair - what other fish besides pencil fish work with apistos?

Thanks so so much!
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Ten gallon is a bit small for a pair, unless it is very heavily planted and has lots of cover. Smaller, less aggressive species would work, Apistogramma borellii for example. A male on his own would be fine, and you could dither it with any Tetra etc. yo liked.

Sand is best as a substrate, you don't need to syphon through it, any "bulky organic debris" should sit on top of the sand, from where you can syphon it out.

Oak leaves you use whole, have a look at "All the leaves are brown" and TomC's post in <"A. agassizii biotope">.

You can use any dead non-resinous wood. I've got Oak, Alder and Robinia wood at present, but I've used Douglas Fir, Juniper, Yew etc in the past.

Black-Neon Tetra works as a dither.

cheers Darrel
 

WendyKL

New Member
Messages
10
Hi Darrel,

Thanks for the quick reply and all the good information! Just to clarify what I think you are saying- I could attempt setting up a pair of apisto borellii if the tank is heavily planted (I would love to do a bigger tank but there is simply no more room). I don't like watching fishicide - murder in the fish tank - so might it just be safer to stick with the single male? The "All the Leaves are Brown" article is great. Again - thanks!

Wendy
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
I've had some Apisto pairs live together happily for years in 10 gal tanks. Others I've had to split up occasionally, especially when mom decides that dad is not safe around the kids, or when dad is ready for another "go" and mom isn't. If you have other tanks available and can move fish around if trouble breaks out, then go ahead and try a pair. Watching them breed and care for fry is the best part of keeping them. If you just have one tank, then either get a "happy pair" from somebody that can attest to them getting along well, or get a single Apisto.
 

WendyKL

New Member
Messages
10
I do have a choice of two other community tanks to use - if the need arises. I'm going to jam up this new ten gallon with plants and several hiding spots - I would love to try a pair. . . . . I have a pair of German Blue Rams in a 20 gallon long that are so much fun to watch - they have had multiple batches of golden eggs - but promptly eat them up after the second day of laying. This pair loves each other most of the time but go through periods where the male will chase the female all about the tank - no worse for the wear though - I do love having the pair. My GBRs are funny fish - they tolerated one Gourami quite well. However when this particular Gourami passed away - I replaced it with another Gourami - and the male GBR did not like him at all - I'm thinking that perhaps the first Gourami was a female and the second one was definitely male - maybe that was the issue - anyway this second Gourami is now living happily in another tank.

Wendy
 

WendyKL

New Member
Messages
10
I'm starting to think that i culd squeeze in a 20 gallon high - this would only be 4 inches longer than a 10 gallon - but would offer up a lot more space.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,202
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
4" longer and 2" wider. A 10 has a 200 sq. in. bottom area; a 15/20H has 288 sq. in. That makes the bottom area of a 15/20H 44% larger. That's a significant difference.
 

ErtyJr

Active Member
Messages
245
Location
Philadelphia, PA
I'm starting to think that i culd squeeze in a 20 gallon high - this would only be 4 inches longer than a 10 gallon - but would offer up a lot more space.

I still want to stress what mike said I feel like it didn't 100% sink in. What happens to the fry from a pair? If you don't enjoy "fishicide" than a pair is not a good idea even in a 20 high, if they have a normal batch of fry. When the fry reach a size the father feels threatened by the males he will likely kill them off, and it is possible the mother will do the same. If she doesn't kill them outright, than you have even more females which means even more fry next time around! If you decide to go the pair route please plan ahead on how you can deal with the fry, maybe ask a few lfs if you could bring in very young juvies 1" or less for store credit. You will need a plan!

If you work out a good plan and think ahead, then I see no reason you couldn't have a nice pair in a 20 high. As previously mentioned a smaller and more peaceful species is recommended. Stay away from the panduro complex. I haven't kept them but I hear they can get nasty and strongly disagree with your choice in their mate.

On the other hand I have a fully grown pair of Cacatuoides that both male and female are large. The male is easily over 4 inches. And the pair is very compatible(just lucky I guess) when it is time to breed them they go in a lightly planted tank with a 11" x 11" floor plan. This is not their full time home by any means, it's too small, but when I put them together there they get along excellently with no stress even AFTER the mother lays eggs. She is completely fine with the male roaming around just no other fish! Keep in mind that is not normal nor do I recommend it, but I know my fish and they are ok in this situation for small amounts of time. And even then I keep a very close eye on them and watch for stress or problems. I have other tanks prepared that they can be separated immediately.
 
Last edited:

WendyKL

New Member
Messages
10
Yes - I have already discussed with my LFS about the possibility of fry - right now I am in the process of cycling a new 15 long and it will be quite a while before I have the apistos in the tank. I have not really decided on a pair OR one male/two females OR two males. If I get two males - do you recommend I get two of the same kind OR say one borelli and one cacatuoides. I appreciate your input.

Wendy
 

ErtyJr

Active Member
Messages
245
Location
Philadelphia, PA
I definitely recommend 2 different species, and making sure they are both more peaceful. I personally don't have much experience mixing species of apisto as I keep all mine separate but I can say I have 2 male cacatuoides in a 46 bowfront and they constantly bicker. They tank is very heavily planted and I'm still not happy with the amount of room and will likely upgrade it soon. It's only two males no females in a 3 foot x 2 foot tank and I'm unhappy with their amount of space. I think 15 may be too small for 2 males for sure. And also to small for a male & 2 females. At most 1 pair, but my preference for that tank would be one beautiful male of any species you like.
 

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