Please help with my cacatuoides

[tobraham]

I'm very, very new to dwarf cichlids.. and would like to eventually breed them. After some research, I decided to try to breed some orange flash Apistogramma Cacatuoides. My LFS was stocked with nine orange flash that were 1.5-3 inches long. I picked up two males (very orange and black pointed tails), and two females (yellowish in color and rounded fins) on my first go around, because that's all I could be pretty sure of as a beginner. After returning some EB rams to the LFS, the owner told me that he had another female cacatuoides in stock that the breeder had brought in earlier that day. He showed me the fish pictured below. I wasn't sure if it was a male or female, because it looked pretty big to me... but also was very yellow in color and seemed to have some female qualities. What I thought wasn't a female quality was her shape and size. 'She' is almost 3 inches long. Could anyone help me sex this cacatuoides? Pictures below. Sorry about the lack of shots with her fins up, she doesn't flare the dorsal fin much and is very aggressive towards keeping everyone out of one corner of the tank. 'She' even gets angry at me when I'm trying to take pictures. If you need more pictures to sex this fish, I can take more today or most evenings.

 

[Rod]

That is a very old fish....perhaps female
but most likely too old to breed...breeder has sold it before it died
Looks to have spinal deformity

It is much better to buy several young fish and let them pair up

Fine sand is a better substrate for apisto's....large pebbles have a greater chance of trapping uneaten food

 

[tobraham]

I assumed it was a fairly old fish, considering 'she' is 50 percent bigger than any of the males I have in the tank. I think I'll keep her.. or him.. whatever it is. I've got two other sexed pairs in the tank and wouldn't mind letting old Goldie live her life out in the tank. Thank you for the idea about the sand. I've seen it in several other breeding apisto videos and will probably switch to it soon.

 

[Mike Wise]

If your males have orange and black patterns on their caudal fins, they cannot be the 'Orange Flash' strain which has no black in the caudal. Your fish are probably Double/Triple Reds. It's not uncommon for the red to move to more of an orange color if not fed enough foods with red color enhancers. Yes, she is old. Based on my experience I would say it is well over 2 years old. The nice thing is that they are never too old to breed. They do slow down significantly, breedingwise, but never really stop if healthy. I had female A. cf. aggassizii BBCS/Madeira-Gold produce fry for me when they were close to 3 years old. I still have a female A. norberti that I collected as a young, but fully mature, adult in Peru back in 2008.

 

[tobraham]

Thank you for your advice. I'm extremely new (less than a month) into keeping apistogramma cacatuoides, and any help is greatly appreciated. The fish shop I got them from had them all labeled as 'Orange Flash Apistogramma Cacatuoides'. After some research, I was leading towards the same conclusion that you just came to... they are not orange flash. Pictured below is one of the males I got in the same batch. The markings on both males looks exactly what I've seen on pictures of 'double red' males. At this point, I'm a bit frustrated that I was sold something that it clearly is not... but a little more research on my side could have prevented that.

A question for you;

I was advised not to breed 'Goldie', my old 'orange flash' cacatuoides (the fish in question in this post), because she has abnormalities and may pass them on to her fry. I was also told that she was 'too old' to lay eggs. Have you ever had fish this old lay eggs?

Thank you for your time,

Ben

 

[Mike Wise]

A question for you;

I was advised not to breed 'Goldie', my old 'orange flash' cacatuoides (the fish in question in this post), because she has abnormalities and may pass them on to her fry. I was also told that she was 'too old' to lay eggs. Have you ever had fish this old lay eggs?

IMHO her 'abnormalities' are not genetic, but enviromental/age related. She is very old - 2+ years at least. Growth in fish slows with age, but never really stops. That's why she is so large. She also appears to have started 'hungry' (not enough food and in a crowded grow-out tank) like many of our hobbyist tank bred specimens, so she shows signs of stunting. Once in a breeding situation, she lived a life where she got a lot of food, but maybe not the best quality, making her rather obese. Too old to lay eggs? I doubt it. I personally have fish from my September 2012 collecting trip to Peru that are taking care of fry right now. Since I collected them as mature adults, they must be close to 3 years old right now.

 

[tobraham]

Thank you again and again for answering my questions. 'Goldie' is settling in the tank pretty well and seems to get along with everyone now.. her aggression has simmered down and she seems to appreciate the males displaying to her. It's unfortunate that she's had some problems in her life.. and with her age, I may only have her for a brief span of time.. but I like her. I talked to my LFS owner about her abnormalities, and he offered to trade her in for another cacatuoides. I declined, hoping this aged female might produce some fry some day .. or at least have a happy home until she goes to that big fish tank in the sky. Best of luck with your projects, and I look forward to reading some more informative posts by this community.