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A. panduro/nijsseni?

rr16

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536
Hi, I bought a pair of wild apistos as A. panduro some time back. I'm actually now wondering if they (or at least the male) are A. nijsseni. Looking at the pictures on Tom's page my male looks more like A. nijsseni. He's in blackwater so hard to make out his colours exactly but when I shone a torch on him he appears to have a lot of yellow colouration on his head (possibly due to blackwater effect but I think it's pigmentation), no obvious extension of the dark patch into the caudal fin, a thin blue band inside the orange one on the caudal, with yellow colouration inside this to the black mark at the caudal peduncle (think I've got that piece of anatomy correct). He also has a more dark base colouration thatn other A. panduro images I've seen and some faint vertical bands, with a darker spot on his sides. He also appears to have a blue margin at the rear of the dorsal and yellow at thr front. Again, I can't tell exactly what the colouration is as it's in blackwater. I have no collection information (although the shop I got them from have had A. nijsseni in). He just doesn't look much like any other A. panduro I've seen but he's also probably not fully mature. The female has quite white base colouration but he's always had a darker base colour (more greyish!).
Are there any obvious differences I should be looking for? I suppose it could be possible that I have a panduro female and nijsseni male.

The pictures aren't great. They are a few months old and are from when I had them in a tank that wasn't blackwater. I'll try to get some others. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 

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Mike Wise

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Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Color isn't really important in apisto ID, except for the dark markings. Mature nijsseni can be easily separated from panduro by examining the dorsal fin:

A. nijsseni - even rounded spines; A. panduro - serrated spines. Look at photos of the dorsal of both species and you should see the difference.

While your female looks like A. panduro, the photos of the male don't show enough features for a good ID.
 

rr16

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5 Year Member
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536
OK, thanks Mike. I'll keep an eye out as it matures.
 

rr16

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5 Year Member
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536
OK, here are a few more pics. Not great pics but some of the blurry ones may have enough pattern to be recognisable. As far as I can see when he extends his dorsal there are no extended rays but will keep an eye out for changes as he grows. Incidentally, the female has taken to becoming much more territorial the last few days. She seems to be guarding the central bogwood clumps and caves, has yellowed up a bit more, the abdominal markings become more pronounced and is chasing the Crenuchus spilurus away whenever they come near, as well as flashing her belly sideways on at the male. So, regardless of same species or not, there would sem to be some kind of breeding behaviour happening.
 

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rr16

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5 Year Member
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536
Here's a video of them. The male has no extended dorsal rays and looks much more like nij I've seen than panduro.
 

rr16

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5 Year Member
Messages
536
Irrespective of what sspecies they are, they have bred and the female is moving young wrigglers with big yolk sacs about!
 

rr16

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5 Year Member
Messages
536
Cheers - hopefully the male turns out to be panduro and I don;t jave hybrids but it's looking unlikely. Tried to get a video but it's too dark where they're tucked away in the bogwood. She has them on a ledge about 3-4 inches off the substrate but they keep nose-diving off and she has to go and retrieve them.
 

chris1805

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Messages
333
Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
Congratzz with their breeding. I Just bought a pair of a nijsseni recently myself. I will try to upload pictures of my male and female for you so you can compair them. I don't have wild ones and i am for the netherlands so it may differ abit. But if i look at your photo's i think they are both a. panduro.
 

chris1805

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Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
Well here the pictures are as promised, i had some trouble with making them… Got my old phone since my iphone is broken so i hope they are not completely useless for you. The male is abit more yellow in real than you can see in the picture. The yellow is mostly the whole front of his head until half way his belly.
IMAG0436.jpg IMAG0002.jpg
 

rr16

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
I know colour isn't a reliable indicator, but his front half is yello, as is the majority of the colour in his caudal fin, which is like photos I've seen of A. nijsseni and not A. panduro, but he's still quite young. No extensions of the dorsal rays yet. Here's a poor picture of the female with fry. It's hard to photograph to get a picture of where she has them.
 

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chris1805

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Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
Well i am not sure if it really matters if the male is a panduro or nijseni, as long as he looks nice and doesn't show any strange behavior it's all fine right? :)
 

rr16

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5 Year Member
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536
As long as I don't try to move any fry that may survive on as either A. panduro or A. nijsseni and ensure it is cloear that they may be hybrids, then yes, I suppose it is. I'm not really for hybridising them though intentionally so will probably try to replace him with a definite A. panduro male in future. I'll have to get the collection location and look for a wild one from that area I think.
 

rr16

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
Here's a link to a not very good clip on youtube of the female panduro with her young. They'll be free swimming tomorrow and went mad jumping everywhere catching brine shrimp earlier. It's hilarious to see all the other fish at the oppossite end of the tank to where she is! On another note, I came down to find my female cacatuoides herding around a group of free swimmers. They've disappeared now but she keeps retreating to her cave so am hoping she's put them in there for the night.

 

rr16

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
Here's another vid and a few pics from today. The fry are free swimming now and following mum about. On the big pic she isn't visible but is over on the left in the tangled wood area. Everything else except the pencilfish is on the right hand side! I love the effect a panduro mother has on the tank dynamics!

 

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rr16

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
536
Here's a not so great video and a few pics. The female has around 6 fry left. They're cute little things and with a bit of look may get one or two that reach adulthood! She's such a stunning little fish!


Enjoy playing spot the fry in the one picture!
 

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