75 Gallon Apisto Tank

[DanielG]

I was intrigued when I saw a tank with a 3d background on it....

What do you think of this as the background in the 75 gal?

 

[MonteSS]

Had a backround with crevices like that. Foeget about ever trying to catch a fish if you need to.

 

[DanielG]

Had a backround with crevices like that. Foeget about ever trying to catch a fish if you need to.

lol, the only way I do it now is at night when they are sleeping, or to lure them out with food... I'm such a jerk..lol

 

[MonteSS]

Yeah but then you get that smart one that knows all the tricks

 

[Linus_Cello]

What about putting the background behind the tank (not in it)?

 

[DanielG]

I have decided to use black schedule 40 pvc from BRS instead of the ugly white piping I got from Home Depot...

What about putting the background behind the tank (not in it)?

I don't have space to put it behind...but I have decided against it considering the cross brace my tank has...doh!

 

[DanielG]

I've got everything plumbed up and the tank is filled.....but I'm experiencing some leaking issues with the check valve that you see behind the tank to the right....my threaded connections are leaking despite how tight they are....I'm going to have to take it off tonight and figure something out....

Maybe some Teflon tape?

Overall, the system is AWESOME! I love it! ... But... the return pump is pretty loud...it may have something to do with the 1" PVC its connected to..

 

[land_lubber]

Just silicon up the joints. Make sure you stop the flow first or the silicon won't set.

 

[DanielG]

Thursday July 31st, 2014 - 11:30pm

Dosed approx 2 ppm ammonia for fish less cycling. Will test in 30 minutes for accuracy.

Approximate amount based on estimated PVC volume.

 

[DanielG]

**4 ppm dosed

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Don't add ammonia, it doesn't really serve any useful purpose and the whole idea of "cycling" is based upon a series of misconceptions and half truths.

The traditional idea is that the addition of ammonia stimulates the nitrifying bacteria in the filter that oxidise NH3 to NO2 and eventually NO3. Because this process needs oxygen and carbonates, you need a constant supply of these. The idea is then you test for NH3, NO2 and NO3, and when the NH3 and NO2 levels fall to zero and NO3 is present the tank is "cycled".

Theoretically this is fine, but the situation is really much more fluid than this, and testing for anions like NO2- and NO3- is much more difficult than most people realise.

All you need to do is plant the aquarium and wait.

If you want the aquarium to "cycle" a bit more quickly, just add some more plants, floaters like Limnobium or Salvinia have access to aerial CO2 and are excellent for this.

I've got plenty of academic references etc if you want them.

cheers Darrel

 

[regani]

Plants are the best and easiest options to cycle your tank. There are plenty of established bacterial colonies on them and especially the substrate they come with. Plants also can directly absorb ammonia from the water which helps as well.
Fast growing plants and/or floaters are best for this and they can be easily removed once the tank stabilises if they don't go with the intended tank design.
Adding ammonia can help with the cycling but as Darrel pointed out you need good oxygen supply and a stable KH if you want to establish the filter fast. For many people the cycling gets stuck at some stage because the KH has dropped to zero which stalls everything.
People also tend to go overboard with the ammonia and keep on dosing. That is fine if you want to keep a fully shark in your tank, it is a bit overkill for a few tetras

@dw1305 Btw, Darrel, I'd be interested in some of those references

 

[DanielG]

My tank doesn't really have a lot of plants in it, and it was designed as such to cut down on the amount of maintenance required. I have a handful of Anubia Petite's in there, but there won't be enough plant mass to negate going through the cycling process.

The ammonia I dosed has already dropped to about 1.5ppm from the original 4ppm I dosed. I do not anticipate on continuing the dosage though, after the 'cycle' has been completed. It's to my understanding that if you put in enough ammonia to support a substantial colony of BB, and then under stock the fish so that the ammonia output is less than what was used to get the cycle going, there will be a BB die off.....A

s of now I plan on keeping predominantly angelfish&cacatu's....but that is still up in the air given my water parameters...

With that, once these ammonia levels die down, I'm only going to dose about 1.5-2ppm as to prevent a BB die off....

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Regani PM your email address and I'll email the papers. They aren't really aquarium ones, they are all from the waste water, or aquaculture, industries and look at techniques for dealing with "water" with a high BOD.

" It's to my understanding that if you put in enough ammonia to support a substantial colony of BB, and then under stock the fish so that the ammonia output is less than what was used to get the cycle going, there will be a BB die off...."

I don't know why this has become the accepted wisdom on fish keeping sites, it just isn't true. If you look through the "cycling threads" on most fish-keeping forums you will find that the discussion is all about ammonia (NH3) and whether various commercial products work, but very rarely does any-one ever mention oxygen (O2).

It is "horses for courses", every one is entitled to their opinion, and in the end it is a matter of personal choice how any-one manages their fish tanks. The problem with the whole cycle "debate" for me is that:

• You can't measure levels of NH3(NH4+), NO2- or NO3- accurately with any of the kits available to us, it is difficult even with dedicated lab equipment. That is why measurement of pollution in relatively clean waters is done using a combination of Biotic Index and 5 day BOD test. After you've added a known volume of NH3, it is very difficult to find out what amount remains.
• NH3 is a biocide and extremely toxic to all organisms. There is a huge difference between the normal biological processes that produce ammonia, and adding a large dose of it.
• Biological filtration systems combining growing plants and microbial systems are about an order of magnitude more efficient than microbial systems on there own, they are also a lot more resilient, partially because of the oxygen production by the plants. An establishment period is just "belt and braces".
• Have a look at this paper Aquatic phytoremediation: novel insights in tropical and subtropical regions: <http://195.37.231.82/publications/pac/pdf/2010/pdf/8201x0027.pdf>

If you read the technical literature on water pollution, aquaculture and waste water treatment, it concentrates on oxygen, and most importantly BOD - Biochemical Oxygen Demand. For biological filtration to be successful, your oxygen supply needs to exceed the oxygen demand at all times. Once you've fulfilled this criteria, all the other steps fall into place naturally.

Ammonia has a huge BOD, so why would you want to add it? you don't need it, microbial systems are much more fluid and resilient than the traditional view allows for, and plant/microbe systems an order of magnitude better again.

My suspicion would be that the fact there is no profit to be made in telling people "oxygen, plants and time" are all you need to cycle a tank means that it isn't ever going to be a popular message for various parts of the industry, and even that some may have a vested interest in promulgating ideas that will often lead to problems occurring that require the purchase of expensive "magic bullets".

I agree that the Anubias on their own aren't ideal for extracting nutrients, but if you stop adding the ammonia it stops being a problem. I can't send you any floaters from the UK, but I think Gerald offered them stateside <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/uk-amazon-frogbit-wanted-will-swap-for-grindal-worms-live-daphnia.18438/>.

cheers Darrel

 

[regani]

Darrel makes a very good point with the BOD.
I wouldn't worry about die off of the bacterial colonies, once they are established you have to do some fairly drastic things to kill them off. If there is a lack of nutrients many species just switch into a dormant state and spring back once conditions are better. Any bacteria dying will just provide nutrients for the remaining colony.
And under good conditions bacteria can grow really, really fast. Unless you plan to throw in dozens of fish at once there is no need to get really high ammonia-consumption ability in you tank. (Even if you achieve that it doesn't mean it is a stable system) Just get the cycle going on a small scale, stock slowly over time and you will never have a problem getting a tank started.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I'll just correct the link for "Aquatic phytoremediation: novel insights in tropical and subtropical regions:" It should be: <http://pac.iupac.org/publications/pac/pdf/2010/pdf/8201x0027.pdf>.

cheers Darrel

 

[DanielG]

 

[DanielG]

It's been a while since I have posted an update...so here we go!

I started out with the idea of setting up a tank for mainly Apisto's. That slowly evolved to including angelfish (wife likes them).

So I got the tank cycled successfully in about 14 days with the Ammonia I bought. Transformation was complete when the tank could make 1ppm of ammonia disappear in a day (12 hrs approx.)...

The fish went in...first the Agasizii's (which absolutely loved the bigger space!), then the two angelfish I bought. I noticed that there was a LOT of aggression on behalf of the male Agasizii, chasing them around and such...So I decided to add two more angelfish to level the playing field. It did just that! The Agasizii no longer antagonized the angelfish, and the angels never bothered the Agasizii's...

It has been a few months now and the Angels have actually spawned their first batch (in 8.3ph water, I know!!). Most of the eggs died, but they did manage to get 24 free swimming fry out of it before they decided enough was enough and ate them...

The custom sump I made from a spare 20 gallon tall was left open-topped, and thus created a LOT of humidity issues, then...other problems associated with high humidity in a small area.

As of today, I made an acrylic lid utilizing a spare bulkhead from when I was creating my durso stand pipe...*See below pic* I left the right side open thinking it probably didn't need to be covered, but I will check when I get home from work tonight to see if this needs to be addressed.

 

[DanielG]

Sorry! Had to reorganize the photobucket account...Here are some pics from along the way:

Stand build:

Tank Build:

Final Layout Design:

Sump:

this failed, lol...

This idea has been successful to date...I made an acrylic lid and cutout a hole using a Dremel, and put on an extra 1" bulkhead I had laying around...

Most Recent Pic...powerhead is now gone and there is a black backdrop on it now...

 

[OGNickyB]

this looks amazing! watching this thread!