Sp Rotflecken

[RustedKnight]

Can someone please provide me with an image of the real Sp Rotflecken (not Alacrina, and not Macmasteri)

I'm trying to establish a correct photo database online so I can help inform those who still believe Macmasteri is viejita, and cannot tell the difference between the 3 species.

I've trawled through google and came up short for Rotflecken, seeing only masses of Alacrina.

(I understand that it is widely considered that Rotflecken IS Alacrina, but i'm inclined to agree with the small pockets of those who say they are different fish, or at the bare minimum, different colour forms)

There is the following image, which is labelled red point II, but described as sp Peurto Narino (considered a yellow colour form of Rotflecken as far as i can understand)
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/gallery/files/5/1/3/9/RedPointIImale.jpg

Euch, this whole Viejita II thing is an online shambles :S

Viejita I and III are easy enough, but II is proving to be a nightmare.

 

[Mike Wise]

You are confusing A. sp. Rotflecken (a macmasteri-group species) with A. sp. Rotpunkt (more accurately A. cf. alacrina Rotpunkt, an alacrina-group species). The only pictures of A. sp. Rotflecken that I know about are in books. Not everything is found on the internet.

 

[RustedKnight]

Bah not having a good day for this. Messing everything up.

Shame I cannot find images, would be nice to have an article written up to stop confusion, such as the one I and many others experience.

I have asked before, but how much again for the DATZ book, posted to UK. Will buy one at end of month.

 

[apistodave]

Bah not having a good day for this. Messing everything up.

Shame I cannot find images, would be nice to have an article written up to stop confusion, such as the one I and many others experience.

I have asked before, but how much again for the DATZ book, posted to UK. Will buy one at end of month.

I think that viejita CF 1 and 2 were put to bed a long time ago, dont forget all the tank raised forms

 

[RustedKnight]

I still see it pop up fairly regularly, atleast once a month.

Thanks for the photo apisto dave, I do take that that is Rotflecken? (i've never personally seen one)

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
There are pictures of "veijita" colour morphII in both Linke and Staeck "American Cichlids 1" and in Stawikowski, Koslowski and Volker "South American Dwarf Cichlids". I've got both of these and can scan and send you the pictures for your own personal enjoyment.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

David's photo is the commercial "A. viejita CF II" that is actually a domestic form of A. macmasteri. Steve Simpson Books sells the DATZ book in the UK: http://www.stevensimpsonbooks.com/?...by=title&page=shop/browse&fsb=1&Search=Search

 

[apistodave]

David's photo is the commercial "A. viejita CF II" that is actually a domestic form of A. macmasteri. Steve Simpson Books sells the DATZ book in the UK: http://www.stevensimpsonbooks.com/?...by=title&page=shop/browse&fsb=1&Search=Search

Yep I beleive these are far from the wild form--Mike--you still want some rubros-I have some on the edge of adulthood

 

[RustedKnight]

David's photo is the commercial "A. viejita CF II" that is actually a domestic form of A. macmasteri. Steve Simpson Books sells the DATZ book in the UK: http://www.stevensimpsonbooks.com/?...by=title&page=shop/browse&fsb=1&Search=Search

Thanks Mike, out of interest is this book any good? http://www.maidenheadaquatics.co.uk/spares/product_info.php?products_id=6755 it's by Dieter Bork and focuses on Apistogramma only. Tbh, tell me exactly which book has the most correct and useful information on Apistogramma in your opinion and i'll open my wallet at the end of the month.
I'm just looking to improve my knowledge, and hope I can pass that knowledge onto others.

 

[apistodave]

Thanks Mike, out of interest is this book any good? http://www.maidenheadaquatics.co.uk/spares/product_info.php?products_id=6755 it's by Dieter Bork and focuses on Apistogramma only. Tbh, tell me exactly which book has the most correct and useful information on Apistogramma in your opinion and i'll open my wallet at the end of the month.
I'm just looking to improve my knowledge, and hope I can pass that knowledge onto others.

Ya ask me the Bork book is not that good and Uwe Romer's books are the bee's knees

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I wouldn't get the Datz photo book, but "Mayland and Bork", and "Linke and Staeck" are both worth getting if you can find them reasonably cheaply. Other than the Romer books (I don't have these, and can't pass comment) the best book available is another DATZ one:

Stawikowski, Koslowski and Volker "South American Dwarf Cichlids", DATZ, Germany ISBN # 3800109115 (2005) with German and English text, but it isn't easy to find in the UK now. <http://www.amazon.co.uk/South-American-Dwarf-Cichlids-numbers/dp/3800109115>

There are reviews (and full titles/details) here: <http://dwarfcichlid.com/Book_reviews.php>

cheers Darrel

 

[ste12000]

To get the best books Rusty you will need deep pockets at the end of the month. Ive had mine for years and they have been bought a bit at a time.. The Romer cichlid atlas 1 is the best followed by cichlid atlas 2(A update on species discovered or described since 2004).. Next for me is the DATZ book, then the Mayland and Linke books.. All are excellent and all are good reference guides.

If your serious about helping others with online ID's then its only right that you research the subject first by buying and reading these books, dont rely solely on internet conversations for your reference material!!. Some of the books are very difficult to find and are now very expensive.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I'm saving for the Mergus Cichlid Atlas I at the moment, I'm also contemplating a German copy.
cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

I agree with David about the Bork book. IMHO it is a bit limited in newer species and the photo are, shall we say?, a bit 'over-Photoshopped'. Still for the info in the book it's fairly accurate. Römer's Cichlid Atlas I is pretty good, although a bit old and several species are incorrectly identified. It's worth the cost just for the ecology data. CA2, however, is 'troublesome'. For the cost, it isn't of equal value. Many of the species are incorrectly identified or given new common names for established species that no one else uses.

IMHO the best text is Koslowski's book, Die Buntbarsche Amerikas: Apistogramma & Co. Most of the species are correctly IDd. Collecting data came from collectors and apisto people from all over the world. The Ethology (behavior) chapter is the best out there. The photos, for the most part, are somewhere between too dark and cr@p. This is one of the reasons that DATZ put out the special pub (Sonderheft): Südamerikanische Zwergcichliden/South American Dwarf Cichlids: many of the same photos, but printed correctly plus many new species/forms. The DATZ book is strong on photos (more species/forms pictured than any other book), but weak on text.

If you ask me (and don't ask me to do it), it's past time to produce an updated book on dwarfs.

 

[apistodave]

I agree with David about the Bork book. IMHO it is a bit limited in newer species and the photo are, shall we say?, a bit 'over-Photoshopped'. Still for the info in the book it's fairly accurate. Römer's Cichlid Atlas I is pretty good, although a bit old and several species are incorrectly identified. It's worth the cost just for the ecology data. CA2, however, is 'troublesome'. For the cost, it isn't of equal value. Many of the species are incorrectly identified or given new common names for established species that no one else uses.

IMHO the best text is Koslowski's book, Die Buntbarsche Amerikas: Apistogramma & Co. Most of the species are correctly IDd. Collecting data came from collectors and apisto people from all over the world. The Ethology (behavior) chapter is the best out there. The photos, for the most part, are somewhere between too dark and cr@p. This is one of the reasons that DATZ put out the special pub (Sonderheft): Südamerikanische Zwergcichliden/South American Dwarf Cichlids: many of the same photos, but printed correctly plus many new species/forms. The DATZ book is strong on photos (more species/forms pictured than any other book), but weak on text.

If you ask me (and don't ask me to do it), it's past time to produce an updated book on dwarfs.

In the works, part of the reason for my trip to Germany in Sept.

 

[RustedKnight]

Looking forward to that Apistodave.

So from the above interesting info, then this is the book I should get at the end of the month, available at an affordable price and seems to be fairly rated by the above.

http://www.stevensimpsonbooks.com/?...=1&CLSN_1065=131291159110652ccaea3c19835d02f8

 

[robert1979b]

If you want to look before you buy, I can bring a copy of of 3 of the books to the BCA meeting in September. Here is a link to info on the convention http://www.britishcichlid.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2806
It is also a good oppertunity to pick up some unusual species as well.

Rob
PS Supprised you missed the oppertunity to promote this event here Steve.

 

[RustedKnight]

I won't be attending the meeting i'm afraid, i'm stuck in the south west of Wales and rely on public transport.