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Culturing live foods?

central tanks

Active Member
Messages
109
Location
Dallas, Tx
Chris i dont have much experiance with grendals, i use micro worms. A pretty standard live food feeding is normally every other day with mine, granted the micro worms are mostly for fry (if i ever get any). Im thinking of starting a blackworm colony in a spare 10 gallon, those i would feed every other day with a good flake/pellet as the main staple
 

boofeng

Member
Messages
92
Sorry for replying late - things got pretty busy the last couple of months.

Thanks, everyone! Sure was a dumb question!
Now for another one: With the soilless culture an amber fluid accumulates at bottom of container, I'll call it "worm juice". I find the worms like to be sprayed with some water and like this fluid to be drained off. The worm farm people always go on about "earthworm juice" being a good fertiliser. Has anyone tried this a) at all, b) for aquatic plants or c) gone so far as to analyse this. I love the idea of recycling but not at the cost of murdering fish but if found safe could imagine using it sparingly for plant fertilising.

I think this "worm juice" might be a bit potent for aquarium use? I use mine on potted plants. My neighbour's ZZ plants and pomegranate produce noticeably more new growth when I give them regular doses of "worm juice".

boofeng, those holes in the pads really make things a lot easier and less messy. After initial concerns with the cultureI am now harvesting twice daily with the plastic grid. I find draining excess fluid and pouring a little aquarium water on top of the sponge to rinse twice daily has really accelerated my culture. I've started a second in case the first crashes and will have plenty of grindals.
However, how safe are they for regular feeding? If not daily, how often? Any concerns?
Regards, Chris

Glad to hear things are going well! I feed grindal worms virtually daily and don't see any issues. I don't just feed grindals though. I also mix in baby brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms, chopped earthworms, live moina. I think with a varied diet it's harder to run into nutrient deficiencies.
 

joemc

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
21
Location
Eire
the only live foods i cultured for fry in the past were micro banana and walter worms, very easy and very productive once you remember to keep making new cultures at present I only have daphnia which I grow in an old mortar bin in the garden, i do find lots of hidden extras in there like glass worm, mosquito larva and gamarus. here is a pic of the daphnia in the bin
IMG_20170326_134536.jpg
 

Happyfins

Member
Messages
93
Location
Sydney
Thanks for all the replies!
Grindal worms are still fascinating me, so easy to grow, now I know what to do.
One thing puzzles me though and would appreciate ideas: I started another culture from my original one, both have the same setup, ice cream container, scouring pads with hole in the middle of top pad. The old one has massive output of worms but is sustained on 4 kitten kibbles a day, the new one is picking up momentum and almost where the old one is but goes through 10 kitten kibbles a day. No other creatures in there as far as I can tell. Can anyone explain? Is it like a growing child needs more food to build up mass?
@central tanks: I use microworm but they just get too small after a while, blackworms are great but I wouldn't call what I do culturing them exactly. With quite a lot of effort I get about 20 worms to feed every week. I have a small tank with COURSE gravel and a sponge filter which I feed cheap pellets. I then siphon off the worms with a weekly waterchange. It works but as I say not very productive. Any low tech improvements on this?
 

central tanks

Active Member
Messages
109
Location
Dallas, Tx
@Happyfins i have read that blackworms rarely breed sexually that they actually split by breaking apart. So Course/ sharp edged gravel would be a good idea, id just use a very thin layer. Then id put some stong air bubblers in, keeping them in the gravel or right above it, the aggresive bubbles can help split the worms. Havent yet started these my self. But it also says to keep them in fairly low water lv, about 2-3 inches above gravel line. Filter likely wouldnt be needed if you just sighoned water out and refilled in every week.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Shallow water over blackworms is intended to increase O2 diffusion to the worms in containers where they are not aerated. In containers with aeration or filtration, deeper water is good. In cool/cold weather I keep blackworms in a large aerated cooler on my porch; MUCH easier maintenance than keeping them in un-aerated containers in my refrigerator (during warm weather).
 

central tanks

Active Member
Messages
109
Location
Dallas, Tx
Shallow water over blackworms is intended to increase O2 diffusion to the worms in containers where they are not aerated. In containers with aeration or filtration, deeper water is good. In cool/cold weather I keep blackworms in a large aerated cooler on my porch; MUCH easier maintenance than keeping them in un-aerated containers in my refrigerator (during warm weather).

Okay then I think the on going question is how do you keep them reproducing? or splitting? Do you keep a colony going or just keep what you bought till its all used up.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Chopped up blackworms that wriggle into gravel and escape being eaten certainly do grow into new worms in my aquariums. But I don't know any good way to reproduce them in usable quantities in aquariums or tubs. I think you'd need a pond with continuous flow from a well to make it a worthwhile effort. Maybe 5 or 6-ft diameter child's wading pools might work, either with continuous flow-through or filtration+ frequent water changes? I think the commercial blackworm growers use trout feed.
 

central tanks

Active Member
Messages
109
Location
Dallas, Tx
Well that theory scaled down should work then. Say a 10 gallon tank with a sponge filter and an air stone on the other side. 1/2 inch of course gravel layering the bottom. Feeding ground down fish flakes/possibly veggies of some kind. Manually splitting worms every once in a while to allow the split worms to form more worms. Changing the water every 3 or 4 days, id only fill maybe half the tank volume. That in theory should keep a small colony going if your only feeding a few worms every couple days. Days you feed you split about 15 worms feed 5-6 of those worms and return the other split prices to the tank.

IDK makes sense in my head, lets say were only feeding one apostolic tank with a trio, obviously with a bunch of fish to feed you'd run low on worms quick. But feeding 3 fish blackworms, and only feeding black worms every 3-4 days. Supplementing with pellets as main diet.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Yes if you only need a few worms a day, that should work. I use 0.25 to 0.50 pound of blackworms a month and can't easily grow that much.
Let us know how it works out, and any useful tips you figure out.
 

central tanks

Active Member
Messages
109
Location
Dallas, Tx
Yes if you only need a few worms a day, that should work. I use 0.25 to 0.50 pound of blackworms a month and can't easily grow that much.
Let us know how it works out, and any useful tips you figure out.

WOW ya with that much worms being used i could see how you would need a kiddy pool for them lol. Ya itll be my only tank with fish in it ATM. So i wont need to use to many worms. Although i do have a planted 10 gallon i gotta put some kind of fish in.
 

Happyfins

Member
Messages
93
Location
Sydney
Some people seem to use a drawer setup where the worms are filtered through coarse gravel, chopped up and then pumped up again. So good aeration and splitting. I personally don't want to have more maintenance for the worms than the fish so my little setup works, although even more low tech without sponge filter and shallower water would suit me but then they would probably die from filthy water. The other problem is that they don't finish food easily so I keep MTS in the same tank with the blackworms. For a treat it works a treat but for quantity I still think soilless grindals is the way to go. They just look so much unhealthier than the blackworms, I am worried about the fat content.
 

central tanks

Active Member
Messages
109
Location
Dallas, Tx
I agree the whole drawer setup is a little more work then im interested in. I still haven't gotten this started. To busy getting a new tank set up, however since I only have like 6 fish to feed blackworms I wouldn't need to feed to many only feeding every other day. I will give it a try and see how this works. Ill probably do this in a 2.5 gallon tank, and just do 50% water changes every other day, wont take but 2 min to drain and refill that amount of water. I just gotta find a place around me that sells blackworms, or ill just have to order from California blackworms although there smallest order amount is more then ill probably need.
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
315
Location
Finland
Hi,

My grindals have started to crawl on the sides and the lid of the culture. Is that a sign of crashing?
I have not harvested yet from that culture.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Not yet, but it's a sign that the colony is dense and the worms are feeling an instinct to disperse.
That's when it gets easiest to harvest - just wipe them off the sides.
edit: oops i was thinking about microworms. Not sure if climbing behavior means anything different with grindalworms, since i've never had one that did that well!
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
My grindals have started to crawl on the sides and the lid of the culture. Is that a sign of crashing?
I have not harvested yet from that culture.
It is.

Can you split the culture in two? Either throw half away, or start a new culture, and add new compost to the old (and new) cultures.

I usually keep four separate one litre ice cream cartons, because even though I've kept Grindal Worms for ten years and I have got better at recognising when they are going to crash, I still lose individual cultures on a regular basis.

I've found adding Red worms (Lumbricus rubellus or similar) as a "canary" helps, if the red worms are on top of the compost surface I need to re-culture.

cheers Darrel
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
315
Location
Finland
Hi all,
It is.

Can you split the culture in two? Either throw half away, or start a new culture, and add new compost to the old (and new) cultures.

cheers Darrel

Hi,

That´s bad news.
It would be nice to actually get some worms for feeding between setting up the culture and crashing! :mad:
 

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